Japan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
And bigger, more expensive targets too.
Actually, not bigger. Smaller than either the Kongos or Atagos.

More expensive? Also probably not. Perhaps on par with the current Kongos, but less than the new Atagos. In either case not more expensive IMHO.

The JMSDF, with the addition of the two new Atagos later in the decade, will end up with eight AEGIS vessels. But the four Kongos will go out of service, as SB indicates, in the 2020s. They will then be followed by the first two Atagos later. The vessels I speak of would replace them.

I do not think these vessels (of which I speak) would replace the Murasames when they begin to be retired. There are nine of them (and five more when you include the Takanamis). Probably a smaller multi-role combatant without the need for a full blown area air defense, will replace those.

In that case, something more on the order of the 6,800 ton Akizukis that were just completed would be used to replace the fourteen of the Murasmes and the Takanamis as they begin to go out of service from the 2024 time frame to the 2036 time frame. The Akizukis do employ the indigenous ATECS system already (which was why I brought it up)...but they do not has as powerful a radar, and use ESSM for their short to mid-range anti-air coverage.
 
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SamuraiBlue

Captain
Thanks. I was unaware of the provision for the country having no conflict. Of course...depending on how that word is defined...it would almost preclude any major power from receiving such trade.

I simply believe that India and Japan becoming closer is an overall good thing, and that such a deal could help cement such a relationship.

We shall see.

Well the exact words are;

  1. 国連安保理決議の違反国や紛争当事国には移転しない
  2. 平和貢献・国際協力の積極推進や我(わ)が国の安全保障に資する場合に限定し移転を認め、透明性を確保しつつ厳格審査
  3. 目的外使用および第三国移転について適正管理が確保される場合に限定

  1. Transfer will be restricted to nations that violates UN security council resolution or nations that are in a military conflict with another nation
  2. Will approve to nations that are taking an active role in maintaining peace and international cooperation and will not conflict with Japan's own national security with assurance of transparency in transfer with strict screening process.
  3. The technology will not be used out of the original intended purpose and will not be re-transferred to a third nation



I was speaking more to the rumored 26DDH which are also rumored to be more fixed wing centric.

This is only a rumor and a mighty naive one at that.
Even if we are able to construct the ship it will take much more time to train the personnel to run the ship.
Right now I believe 1/4 of the personnel on JS Shirane and JS Kurama are being re-assigned to JS Hyuga and JS Ise for re-training for future deployment on JS Izumo when she enters commission. It will take another three to five years to re-train all personnel from JS Shirane and JS Kurama with added personnel to master handling JS Izumo and her sister ship. It's only from there when Japan will consider acquiring another flat top(if we really need to) with a fixed wing squadron group in which we will need to select personnel from the four flattops for another course of re-training to operate the new flattop and acquire and train pilots to fly the fixed wing squadron.

All in all I estimate at least another decade even if we start planning now to operate a full fledged flattop with a fixed wing squadron.

Hmmm...so these two vessels will be predominantly BMD vessels then? Not mulit-role which are also capable of BMD?

It will be interesting to see how the JMSDF goes with the Kongo replacments.

Will they be Block III Arleigh Burke variants? Will they be an advanced Atagos? Will they be somethinbg like a Se Jong...which I personally believe is the strongest AEGIS platform developed to date.

Or, will the JMSDF enhance and make use of their own ATECS System and its associated indegenous sensors and computing (OQY-11, FCS-3A, OQQ-22, ICIW) to create a true "Japanese AEGIS" DDG?

I'd love to see the JMSDF build, over say ten years, eight uniquely Japanese DDGs to replace the Kongos and other retiring JMSDF vessels with an 8,000 ton class JMSDF multi-role, AEGIS-like vessel of their own. Japan is certianly more than capable of it, and with the use of Data Link and interfacing terminals to continue close coordination with and cooperating with the US Navy, it would be a heck of a program.

You know this is a complete spaghetti type mess in which only a master can unravel.

First we have Japan declining participation in joint development of AMDR.

Second we have Japan lacking on-hand knowledge in developing BMD tracking and illumination.

Third we have Japan retaining and operating radars utilizing gallium nitride semiconductor technology.

Forth we have US defense contractors seeing Japanese contractors as direct rivals and potential partners for export.

Fifth we have Japan lifting her ban on military equipment export and adopting a new principle with Japan actually signing agreements with other nations.

Sixth we have Japan having on-hand knowledge in designing and developing her own complex ATECS System incorporated into a war ship of indigenous design.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Japanese whitepaper highlights industrial role of F-35A
By: GREG WALDRONSINGAPORE Source: Flightglobal.com 13 hours ago
Japan’s annual defence whitepaper underlines the importance Tokyo places on the industrial participation aspects of the Lockheed Martin F-35A programme, and casts a wary eye on airpower developments in China.

The whitepaper, produced annually by the Ministry of Defense, touches on all aspects of Tokyo’s security situation, from the disruptive potential of non-state actors to challenges posed by major powers, namely China. It also outlines Tokyo’s plans for developing its combat capabilities and the importance of the country’s defence industry.

In regard to specific weapons programmes, the report places strong emphasis on Japan’s F-35A acquisition. It notes that Japanese companies have been working to develop the manufacturing processes related to Tokyo’s 2011 decision to obtain 42 F-35As.

“It is important for Japanese companies to participate in the manufacturing process and to come into contact with cutting edge fighter aircraft technology and knowledge in order to ensure safety and high operational availability, resulting in the safe and efficient management of [Japan Air Self Defense Force] F-35As,” says the report.

“Following discussions with related parties such as the U.S. government, the participation of Japanese companies in the final assembly and check out (FACO) for airframe and the manufacture of certain engine and radar parts was decided in FY2013. In FY2014, the companies plan to further participate in the manufacturing process, in the engine FACO and the production of parts within the infrared detection device, the electro-optical distributed aperture system (EODAS).”

Produced by Northrop Grumman, the EO/DAS system is a core element of the F-35, effectively giving the aircraft’s pilot 360 degree visibility of the battlespace.

At the Singapore air show in February 2014, Lockheed Martin told Flightglobal that it and Mitsubishi were deep in the process of developing the Japan FACO. Japan’s first four F-35As will be produced at Lockheed’s Dallas-Fort Worth factory with deliveries to commence from the second quarter of 2016. The remaining 38 will be produced in Japan.

The whitepaper makes specific mention of several key airpower developments in China. It estimates that China’s air force and navy have around 2,580 combat aircraft.

“China is not only improving its air defense capabilities for its national territory, but also aiming to build up capabilities for air superiority and anti-surface and anti-ship attacks in areas which are further distant from China, and improving long-range transportation capabilities,” says the report. “Further attention needs to be paid to these activities conducted by the Chinese air forces.”

It notes that Beijing continues to develop the Chengdu J-20 and Shenyang J-31 fighter aircraft, and that the Chinese navy is conducting flight tests with Shenyang J-15 aboard the carrier Lioaning. It also points to advances Beijing has made with its Ilyushin Il-76 based KJ-2000 airborne early warning & control (AEW&C) aircraft and the Xian H-6 tanker.

Tokyo made use of the report to repeat its displeasure at Beijing’s unilateral establishment of an “Air Defense Identifcation Zone” over the East China Sea in late 2013. The controversial zone impinges on international airspace and is opposed by the United States, Japan, and other countries.
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SamuraiBlue

Captain
And bigger, more expensive targets too.

Unfortunately the target has better radars and missiles and is going to shoot back with better accuracy, most unfortunate for any captain or pilot trying their luck in targeting her. LoL

Oh yeah Blackstone, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either.
 
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shen

Senior Member
Unfortunately the target has better radars and missiles and is going to shoot back with better accuracy, most unfortunate for any captain or pilot trying their luck in targeting her. LoL

Oh yeah Blackstone, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either.

Well, we don't know how the FCS-3 radar suite actually perform. What we do know is that every other navies in the world has rejected C-band of FCS-3 as unsuitable for long range search due to its inherent inferior long range and poor weather performance. From available source about the Japanese decision to to use C-band instead of the common S-band, it appears it is largely a cost saving measure. Shorter wavelength requires smaller antenna, thus smaller ships and lower cost.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Unfortunately the target has better radars and missiles and is going to shoot back with better accuracy, most unfortunate for any captain or pilot trying their luck in targeting her. LoL

Oh yeah Blackstone, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either.

Samurai, I have no doubt the JMSDF is still ahead of PLAN, today. Two decades from now is another question altogether.

Blackstone...CUT IT OUT!

You know better and this is pure flame bait. You were warned already from the Type 052C/D Thread. Stop trying to push the envelope.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Blackstone, the JMSDF may have a long acronym but calling it the IJN is inaccurate and can be considered as a derogatory. Its like calling the PLA the Imperial Chinese Army. The SDF was empowered by the Japanese Parliament and Diet not by the Imperial edict.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Well, we don't know how the FCS-3 radar suite actually perform. What we do know is that every other navies in the world has rejected C-band of FCS-3 as unsuitable for long range search due to its inherent inferior long range and poor weather performance. From available source about the Japanese decision to to use C-band instead of the common S-band, it appears it is largely a cost saving measure. Shorter wavelength requires smaller antenna, thus smaller ships and lower cost.

C-band radars offer higher accuracy and resolution than S-band radars. And for missile tracking and guidance at short to medium ranges, C-band radars are an excellent choice for that specific role.
 

shen

Senior Member
C-band radars offer higher accuracy and resolution than S-band radars. And for missile tracking and guidance at short to medium ranges, C-band radars are an excellent choice for that specific role.

Yes, higher accuracy and resolution, as long as the weather is sunny. The sensitivity of C-band to weather makes it the favorite choice for weather radars.
For short and medium range, I agree C-band radars should work fine. But it also limits the 6800 tonnes Akizuki class with limited long range search and tracking capability, no long range area defense capability (which all modern air defense ships of similar tonnage have). Even the much smaller 054A got a mast mounted S-band radar.
The bigger problem is that having invested in the development of the C-band radar, Japan is left with an alternative domestic search radar. The Aegis destroyers are the only modern Japanese warship with decent long range search radars. Even the no-a-carrier Izumo-class have to settle with the C-band radar. An aviation ship without a decent long range radar is laughable.
 
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