PLAN Carrier Strike Group and Airwing

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

The J-15 is toooooo large IMO. It's nearly as large as an old USN RA-5C Vigilante. I betcha they won't be able to get more than 20 safely aboard the ship. IMO the PLAN should have opted for the MiG-29.. If they had they'd perhaps would have had a full air wing and a deployable ship by this time..or at least a ship in a full training cycle in prepration for some sort of deployment.

Long ago I stated this;

10.06.2006

The Su-33 provides massive benefits in logistics with the PLAs existing air fleet of flankers.
The Su-33 also has much superior range and payload compare to the Mig-29K, and unfortunately the PLA has no middle size between the naval flanker and fulcrum to choose from: ie, nothing F-18E or F-14 sized.

However I think the size of the Su-33 is one of the main benefits. While it is a big plane and will limit the numbers a carrier can embark, it's sheer range and endurance is very impressive. IMO the main drawback of carrier based aircraft is their reliance on land based tankers for longer range missions. The J-15 may be able to conduct some of those longer range missions with only internal fuel and/or limited buddy refuelling.


Also, there is already a flanker thread where J-15 discussion happens, I'm not sure if there is need for another.
 

Lion

Senior Member
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

The Su-33 provides massive benefits in logistics with the PLAs existing air fleet of flankers.
The Su-33 also has much superior range and payload compare to the Mig-29K, and unfortunately the PLA has no middle size between the naval flanker and fulcrum to choose from: ie, nothing F-18E or F-14 sized.

However I think the size of the Su-33 is one of the main benefits. While it is a big plane and will limit the numbers a carrier can embark, it's sheer range and endurance is very impressive. IMO the main drawback of carrier based aircraft is their reliance on land based tankers for longer range missions. The J-15 may be able to conduct some of those longer range missions with only internal fuel and/or limited buddy refuelling.


Also, there is already a flanker thread where J-15 discussion happens, I'm not sure if there is need for another.

In fact, F-14 was throwed out of CV not because of its sheer size by because of cutting down maintenance and logistic cost.
The mechanical steering of F-14 wing is way too expensive to maintain.

Same goes for the Russian when kuznetsov commission in the late 80s, they have choices of Su-33 and Mig-29K and they decide to opt for the first. Indian vikramaditya was basically too small to operate the flankers and IN pick an excellent choice of Mig-29K for their carrier.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

I still prefer J-15/Su-33 over MiG-29K.

Some report suggested that J-15 can take off from the Liaoning with full fuel and 2 tons of weapon. So far as I could recall, Flanker family aircraft can carry fuel about 9 - 10 tons internally. That's total of 11 - 12 tons of weight a J-15 can carry when taking off from ski jump. So, we put it this way; a J-15 takes off with full fuel, no weapon, and acts as an aerial refueling aircraft. Two other J-15s each carries 5 tons of fuel and 5 tons of weapon and do a mid-air refueling after taking off. So the two J-15 can have nearly full fuel plus 5 tons of weapon which is very decent. Right?
 

A.Man

Major
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

J-15 Test Documentation (?)

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(20131104开贴)歼15 9吨内油还可以挂5吨弹药。 对海 鹰击83K 5枚 两格斗弹 3.7吨左右。 对地 500公斤激光制导炸弹6枚或者憋版JDMA或者KD88A 两枚格斗弹 3.5吨 空战8枚PL12C加4枚PL10 3吨。这些是195米起飞点挂载能力。
1 . 2 号起飞点 7.5吨内油 6枚霹雳12C 4枚霹雳10 2吨多一点。。。。。
这是飞出来的数据。
至于9吨内油 5吨弹药挂载,只飞了两三次。。。具体什么挂载 先不说了
忘了补充一下。。。。这是在24节航速下得出的数据。 辽宁舰由于锅炉方面的成绩 在28节速度都可以很长时间保持,极速飙到过30节
飞五吨弹那两次 。那种弹药才是保密度比较高的,一种对地的 一种对舰的 。 陆地飞的真弹,舰上飞的假弹
飞9吨油5吨弹药那两次 起飞轨迹不是很理想。。 上头不太满意,说是舰机配合不到位。飞了两次就没飞了。
平了三百米
舰载预警机遇到大麻烦了。。。。。。。。。。。。
明年就会通过各种渠道公布了。。。。。也没什么可隐瞒的。(20131104)
我不知道001A的情况 。。。
伙伴加油很早前就飞过了。
(海盘)新平台有问题,有向后延后计划的打算。。要改的地方不少。机体设计挨批啦,得改,被骂拖了后腿。。
我们以6小时为一个计算周期。(回答辽宁长时间高航速)
网上那个算纯标本。据某个老头说我读书的时候就有了。(回答网上Y7改图)
平300米的时候 高度60米 而后转入正常飞行。我们规定滑越甲板出去时低于25米记入一次安全警告记录。
(海盘)18.6米 26米 6.2米 巡航速度要在500以上 巡航时间不能低于5小时 还得改。。。。。
当时气象条件 风速都比较好,他觉得战场环境恶劣一点的话这样就不行。(回答平三百米不让飞)
我会选择合适的时候发一些当时的照片。
额,没马甲穿。就是个闲逛的。上去收数据,然后需要调整的调整。(回答是否甲板上穿马甲的)
最近进展不错,也有点时间休息,所以发上来为那几个 大叔 老头 高兴一下。
我们要求飞行员着舰至少保留15%左右的油量。最多的时候带了两吨多一点的弹药着舰。
下一步要做完全侧风的起飞。这是我们最紧张的。
我不是舰上人员。。。。我们上去采数据的 也不是每次都我去。
(海盘)主要设计是以弹射为重点,但是也能以25吨的重量滑跃起飞。
现在为止我们的测试都是很保守的,留有很大的安全余度。以后会逐渐增加测试强度和难度。
进展不错 除了预警机 其他都很顺利 所以为那几个大叔老头高兴一下。平时对我挺关照的。出于开心,奉命的话就轮不到我啦。。。。。基本都是些对保密来说无关痛痒的东西。呵呵挺高兴的。。。。。
帮各研究组成员跑腿的角色,船上船下白天夜里都要跑。
当时确实气象条件不错,如果只靠24节的速度,可能起飞轨迹会下沉,至于还剩多少安全余度 还得进行测试,这方面还没有展开。下一步 侧风的起飞测试完了之后 也许会跟进。
其实这个公开图的起飞重量是31吨。。。。。。。。。
这个起飞重量是28.7吨
近点的9吨油带了两枚中距弹两枚格斗弹。后面的情况新闻没播,不是很轻松的飞行轨迹。24节
(空重)18700公斤。算滑油 飞行员 和两个常用挂架。翼尖是设计挂架
我们还没开始极限数据的测试。 这次是搞侧风的起降和夜间的多批次起降。
额。。。。。。没KH41那么大 。挂了三枚(回答飞五吨弹那次的新弹)
是两种比较新的弹
从别国得到的数据显示库兹涅佐夫号不能长时间保持24节的航速对苏33的起飞造成很大影响 。
这次跑其他地方去了 没上舰。我们采数的五个人得伺候好几个研究团队 跑腿工。
以后会飞极限挂载,至今飞过最高的就是接近33吨和前点28.7吨。。。。。。还没测试过下沉的极限起飞轨迹。实弹的挂载也还没测试,伙伴加油只挂过没装配完的主加油仓。侧风的起降也还没做。。。还有得弄了。慢慢来。
有几款比较重的新型弹药。反舰和对地的,一吨多和两吨级别的。他们希望是能尽可能的得到歼15各种条件下所能做到的数据。。。。
对面武器挂起来飞过的就KD88A YJ83K 还有两款新蛋。一吨多一个的。。 他那个图第二张的怕是要接近极限挂载了吧,还没飞过极限挂载呢。(回答高山CG)
滑跃是依靠战机自身动力和气动性能,只要飞机的动力够强,起飞的气动性能够好,推重比够高,理论上对飞机起飞重量并无限制。
弹射对比滑越的优势在于起飞更节省甲板空间使甲板能放更多飞机,起飞效率更高,对于不好的天气环境起飞适应性更好。很多人对于弹射和滑越的认识不全造成各种误解。
前点我们现在飞过最高的重量是28.7吨,起飞线长105米 起飞滑越距离是95米 这样短的距离在现在的发动机推力水平上就必然比不过使用距离差不多的弹射了。如果发动机推重比比现在高得多,前点的起飞重量也不是不能跟弹射相比甚至更大。说到底还是发动机推重比水平高低限制着滑越甲板的飞机起飞重量。
按我们从国外弄到的一些数据来看。米格29K在远点都能以接近22吨的重量起飞,油料弹药总载荷都可以达到9吨多。
歼15 设计指标舰上起飞的最大重量极限是34.5吨。 他这个38吨应该是理论值吧。。。。舰载机训练大纲里面也没说过。
单机极限测试还早呢。暂时没看见实验安排。下一步侧风起降 实弹挂载 。夜间起降实际上次就进行过初期测试了,后面还要继续。。。。能看见的实验进度表后期是三起飞点恶劣天气条件下 挂弹 密集起飞。。。
噢。舰载伙伴加油测试还没搞,上次弄了个没装配完全的主加油吊舱飞了几次。后面还要继续
实际上以前也考虑过米格29K 。因为给我们的数据是 母舰20多节航速下 远点可以载5吨多的油 外挂4吨多执行作战任务。后面综合各方面考虑包括本身对性能的需求 和 中间还掺杂着一些我们隐形舰载机发展计划(要求保密)的情况下马上就否决了。
现在看来当初的决定没错。。
是这样。甲板风对提高舰载机的载荷帮助很大,差不多的飞行轨迹。24节甲板风与没有甲板风之间的载荷可以相差几吨。
同意,我们现在还没飞过极限下沉轨迹。等准备充足之后会尝试。(回答:这实际上就是滑跃起飞的特点,不允许平飞段出现是约束了滑跃起飞的最大重量,或者说之是约束了滑跃起飞的效率,之所以不允许平飞段出现只不过是滑跃起飞在世界范围内仍是新事物,无经验下不敢放手去试而已。)
对,美国的航母弹射重挂载舰载机的时候一样需要母舰高速航行来配合起飞。搞核动力航母除了众所周知的好处之外追求持续的高航速来配合舰载机也是主要原因之一。
这个确有其事,普加乔夫进行极限轨迹测试的时候飞过31吨多 前点。以前通过乌克兰渠道弄到的测试数据里面有提到这个事情,轨迹下降到了20米安全线之下拉起来的。(回答普加乔夫在前点飞起过31.8吨)
有钻地弹,反舰弹,防区外武器等,一吨级别 两吨左右级别。。 型号比较新 没了。(回答新弹)
俄罗斯胆很大的,步子比我们迈得大。普加乔夫飞前点31吨多 这没胆没能力的不敢轻易尝试,安全线之下都快坠海了才拉起来的。
我们都是小碎步稳稳当当。
通过数百架次的测试,我国渤海一带的气候条件有的季节有时候会让战机推力减少4%左右,至今没发现更高的推力损失。这也是为什么平了300米上头都不满意的原因,安全余度留得很大。
不考虑自然风24节和18节的对比这个一系列的详细数据没经过计算不敢乱说。
陆地相对无风状态和舰上24节航速加自然风的测试对比相同起飞距离相同滑越角度的载荷是差了好几吨
库兹涅佐夫号有一段时间的航速还是不错的,后来某些原因造成以后的动力问题。俄罗斯还派了人来想获得一些帮助。现在还在洽谈中。
(辽宁)滑跃甲板的角度船厂给来的资料说是 14.3度。
你这个模型挂了5吨多。。。不过我们测试进气道下方的挂架只挂过中距弹。机翼折叠处外面那个挂架可以挂850公斤左右的武器。(20131116)
换KD88A 有卫星制导滑翔炸弹 有激光制导炸弹 有反辐射导弹 防区外对地导弹 又有格斗弹中距弹防身。。。。对地的多任务没问题啦。
没有。就是增快母舰航速,选择合适的风向航向和以后换装更大推力的发动机。。。现在挂三枚1.5吨的某型对地巡航弹也就平了300米,安全余度还很足。(回答有无针对超重载起飞的辅助措施比如火箭助飞)
最低配置24 标准30(回答辽宁会载多少J15)
机翼折叠处外的那个挂架可以挂920公斤左右的武器。 肌腹中线挂架可以串两枚500公斤炸弹或者一枚反舰弹
从现在知道的数据来看,两个前点起飞的歼15油料加弹药总载荷可以略超过米格29K195米起飞的最大载荷。。
特殊情况下留一定的安全余度下应该还能提高0.5-1吨的载荷,现在前点飞过最高重量是28.7吨。整个飞行轨迹无下沉但有转平的现象。
早就研究过各方优劣了,当初选择重型机也是考虑重型机底子好 弥补一下与弹射的差距。。要是用米格29K的话与F18E差距太大。。
粗略的计算同样的甲板面积 同样的舰载机 滑越方式甲板载机量只能达到弹射的70%
恶劣天气条件下弹射所能起飞的海况可以高一到两级,这次出去的辽宁舰训练了 四级海况的起飞。
同样的条件弹射的重载效率比滑越方式高得多,与尼米兹级相比辽宁舰重载起飞效率只有它的30%
所以上头还是要求走弹射的路。。。第二艘真正国产的航母(不算辽宁舰和某改进型)一直是计划上弹射器的。
850--920公斤,连挂架和不连挂架的区别,70公斤一个挂架一般的重载,超重的那种有一两百公斤的。(回答机翼折叠处挂架到底挂多重)
换新相控阵雷达? 新款的那个好像更重。。。我们不负责那个 。不好发表看法,只知道性能很不错。具体什么时候装不知道。(回答J15以后会否换相控阵雷达)
歼15主要是机翼折叠位造成外面那个挂架 强度损失。
重载起飞效能比不上尼米兹级,但比戴高乐号那种中型弹射航母是没问题的。。。
空战任务能达到尼米兹级的70%。这也不错的。
量产型跟歼16一个档次的雷达航电系统。(回答J15雷达)
在安全的情况下,前后点应该还能有0.5-1吨的载荷提升空间。 这在以后的训练测试中还要继续。。
当时歼16基本都搞定后,上头很高兴。就说了一句话。 我们的第一代舰载机也要达到这个水平,那是我们的远洋保障。
好吧,辽宁舰的弹药库 油库,动力舱,机库的某些部分 加装了一种新研制的材料和损管设备,有什么用呢??,似乎很有用。
米格29K挂重型武器最多挂两枚,其他重载挂点要挂副油箱 不然飞不远,选择歼15的时候就考虑过这一点。
歼15与苏33在外部设备上只有一些细节的变化,机翼折叠后也是一模一样长。7.4米
航母编队测试训练在舰载机所有测试实验任务完成之前就会展开。2014年年底之前。。。。(回答舰载机试验估计还要多长时间才完成)
根据实验进度表来看2015年基本能完成所有舰载机和母舰的测试任务。
详细点应该说是2015年基本能完成歼15单座,某型通用直升机,母舰的测试实验任务。。。
三亚太黑了,一顿饭吃了两千多,几个普通菜而已。。。(20131130)
同时起降,意思是1.2号起飞点战备值班飞机待飞 或者准备起飞的同时,回收带弹的降落飞机。军官说这很重要。。
这个不算新,以前也弄过 这次算正式操练。
然后。其他的 只能说很热闹。很刺激。我从没经历过这些。闪了。过段时间再来。(回答南海有没有新科目)
轮流操练,1.2号起飞点待飞准备的飞机 等带弹降落的飞机降落后飞出去一架,降落的飞机补上2号点的位置待飞准备,第二架降落的飞机降落后,1号点的飞机起飞,第二架降落的飞机补上1号点位置待飞准备。。
如此循环了几十个架次。。。当然机库的其他飞机也从升降机升上来轮流操练。
这次可待久了。没两个月怕是不不肯走了。看来过段时间我得坐运保障设备的飞机回去了。(20131201)
实际上,从斜角甲板中线冲出去,J15的翼尖也擦不到偏流板。大概有3米多的间隙。
三亚这地方消费有点高。。。。。。这次我居然有点晕船的迹象。一路跑得有点快。有点颠簸。
最后回下贴。这次搞高海况起降,夜间多批次起降(加强版)。编队防空训练。。。。。。高海况。会吐的。(20131201)
很长时间以来参加测试的不止这三架,只是没曝光。。。J15已经进入了小批量产阶段。这次不止3架 但也不多。。。
现在大概有20架左左右右。。。。
2号点与飞机降落回收同时运作已经有一定的架次了。保证回收作业的同时前点有一到两架值班飞机随时起飞作战。。。。
2015年要完成所有的舰机实验任务。。。。。2014-2015年航母这一块会有重大的事情发生。比如说某改型国产航母等。比如固定翼舰载预警机可能会曝光。16号舰也会到一个高峰期,会看见甲板上很多各种的飞机。有些是现在没上过新闻的。(20131202)
2015年完成舰机所有试验任务是工作安排。。其他的都是我猜的。。如今资讯这么发达我看也隐藏不了多久。。。
到现在为止甲板上还从来没同时运作超过5架战机。。。。还要点耐心。
2号点参与同时起降作业 已经是常态化训练,没有想象中那么危险。
俄罗斯的锅炉 但从锅炉内部 到外部设备全部被改过 可以说是面目全非。。。
嗯,侧风起飞和降落是必练科目。。。
2号点参与同时起降作业已经是常态训练之一了
必须有国产发动机。再等等,时间长了会慢慢曝光滴。。。(回答J15后续发动机)
准备前的时间暂时不来了。。准备准备要晕船喽。再见各位。。(20131203)
累惨了。瘦了五斤 吐了十几次。。。晕船药似乎没啥效果啊。也可能浪太大。通报说6级海况。。。。还开高速!受不了。测试机库和甲板的飞机固定。。。(20131223)
话说这次测试整舰 和护航舰艇的电子系统电磁兼容,某国的巡洋舰收到了风声 心急火燎的开过来。。。
第一次看见了11管的近防炮开火,右舷 两门 嗡嗡嗡的声音。。。。以前只听同事说过。他们见过了,这次轮到我大饱眼福了。。嘿嘿
短时间我是没什么反应,长时间 受不了。。。。不过虽然吐了幸好还能吃得下东西。舰上有做披萨的。加培根。。。饮料就不敢多喝了 喝一点点。
新设计的机体。。。(回答海盘为何不用Y12)
通用直升机。。。。。比直九大。
25节甲板风 160米长的平甲板 就可以放飞25吨的类似E2的窝浆飞机。。。我们就是朝E2这个标准在走,或许会超过E2的技术指标。
说看见 实际也就一个黑点。。。别人不说我还以为是个芝麻。。。在编队区域内左冲右突 摆明了捣乱。看见辽宁舰的位置后开直线过来想伴行。中途被一艘大船挡住了。(20131224)
舰上厨房还真有咸鸭蛋,。。,。。早餐 稀饭陪咸鸭蛋 或者豆浆配油条啊。。包子也有 白菜猪肉馅的。
谢谢。。。。。。有成果的话也不觉得怎么累。最郁闷的时候搞一个东西最后 白辛苦。比如等了整整一天因为各种原因也没弄到数据的时候。。
电子水平设计超E2C。。。当然还要看以后实际出来之后的测试数据。。。
不能说的 我不敢说。。。。前途不能开玩笑。三十岁的人了 。
比较有意思的一点我注意到了,。。 几乎每次都有随舰记者啊几乎。。。。保密测试的时候让他们呆舱室里面斗地主,有时候让他们出来拍拍照。呵呵呵。不准单独接触。
一分钟 接近一万发的射速哟。。。(回答11管)
有啊,测试舰机适配,高海况下的甲板 机库固定必须要真飞机,还有各种直升机。。(回答这次有无带J15)
那大船 和巡洋舰都只能看到一个黑点而已,不知道有多大。隔太远。
伴随我们的驱逐舰开了一段距离。 当时的驱逐舰大概在辽宁舰的20多公里远。然后朝辽宁舰开过来,半路被一艘大船拦住了。。
近防 ,电子系统 ,声呐。。(回答新闻说是综合测试作战系统,包括电磁兼容还有什么)
非常不错,动力充沛,起伏不大,综合作战系统都运作正常。。。(回答6级海况表现如何)
设计可以,实际还没挂过。。。。。。只挂过两吨的。(回答J15腹部前后两个挂点联合起来使用,可以挂单件4吨的重物)
高海况飞过了,次数不多,四级海况。。。
这次最高的时候有六级海况。。。。我就是这么吐的。
2015年会看到个大概。。(回答舰载预警机进度)
噢。。。。。。美国人恶人先告状啊,他们在编队内乱窜 阻挡正常航行 在提前警告的情况下还企图靠近辽宁舰,幸好半路把它拦了。。。
一种传感器,全面衡量船体的状况,了解其不同部位的变形力矩、剪切压力、甲板所受的抨击力。。。。
可测量船体的弯曲应力,而且可测量海浪对湿甲板的抨击力。
这东西不属于我的工作范畴。。。。。。。我那时候呆在机库检测 飞机固定受力。(回答甲板上一排白色物体是什么)
坐直九到另外一艘船搞定一些事情之后 从那艘船爬下来的。。。。(回答是否先爬到交通艇上然后摆渡上岸)
不敢威武,飞过去 顺带把我捎上的 。。。呃呃呃。老一辈真是值得钦佩,我也一直被关怀照顾。版主老大四十多了???我82年的 小你一轮啊,你也是前辈。
似乎科研行业的身体都不怎么样。熬夜熬的吧。还有经常接触一些有害物质。。橡胶什么的 长久下来都危害健康。颈椎病,慢性气管炎 鼻炎 这些。
2015年应该会透露出一些大概,上舰还早。。。。除非有大进展(回答海盘)
2015年辽宁舰基本就是青壮年了。。。能参与持械斗殴了。
通用直升机嘛。。。会发展舰载型,这个系列我没参与过,数据就不知道了。。
稳步推进中。这个回答有点那个啥。。。。。。我自己都觉得吐。(回答太行上舰)
至今为止 我就到过餐厅 住舱 机库 甲板 舰桥 。洗衣房这些。。 ,但确定没有变成机库的一部分 因为机库的前端也就稍微过了前一个升降机一点点。再往前就是弹药库了。。。(回答辽宁舰上原来放反舰导弹的地方现在变成啥了)
实际上每次飞行 都有搜救直升机待命 新闻里面没拍那个画面而已。。
滑跃航母,重点是舰体设计。。。(回答第一艘自制的航母,会不会装蒸汽弹射器)
我只知道北方的。。(回答第二艘自制航母)
2015年 舰载机方面可能有个惊喜。。。。。嘿嘿嘿
歼15的各种改型中的一种至关重要的。。。对战力提升非常有帮助的。
惭愧惭愧 辅助人员一个 打下手的,跟搞科研的比差一大截。中航工业集团直属部门。由集团分配工作。
能带,长剑10??? 没见带过。KD88A 还有一些激光制导炸弹 卫星制导的滑翔炸弹 这些对地武器都可以带。火箭发射巢什么的等等。。。(回答J15能否带对陆攻击弹药)
长。。。(回答你给的18.6米是长还是翼展?)
所以国产滑跃航母会扩展一点宽度。。(回答预警机只能从3号长跑道起飞,翼展太宽不好调度)
精确地就不说了 。。。大概的试验情况是 195米处起飞在一定条件配合下大概 推比0.72-0.75就可以比较稳妥的滑跃起飞。。。。。105米处同样条件就是大概 0.86-0.88.。。 增加10米甲板 这个能产生什么 我不知道。。。
前批次不是AESA。后面的会慢慢上。前面楼层也说过这个。进度合适的话2015年底到2016年有一款比较强的雷达系统会开始装配,前批次的也会慢慢换装。(回答中秋的航电和J16一样,那就是AESA雷达,数字电传)
8中四近不是接近三吨?带挂架2.7吨。。(回答确定是接近三吨?)

Oh, My Shity Auto Translation:

(20131104 Open paste) the F-159 tons of oil can also hang five tons of ammunition. Seahawks hit 83K 5枚for fighting two bombs around 3.7 tons. Ground 500 kg laser-guided bombs or choke version 6 or KD88A two JDMA 3.5 tons aerial combat missiles 8 PL12C plus four PL10 3 tons. These are 195 meters off point mount capability.
1. The 2nd off oil 6 Charlie 12C 4枚thunderbolt 102 tons that the point 7.5 tons. . . . .
It is flying out of the data.
As for the nine tons of oil five tons of ammunition to mount only fly a couple of times. . . I will not speak of what specific mount
forgot to add something. . . . It is in the 24 speed data obtained. Liaoning ship due to the boiler's achievements in the 28 speed can be maintained for a long time, the speed had risen to over 30
five-ton bomb that fly twice. The kind of ammunition is a relatively high degree of confidentiality, a kind of ground-to-ship of. Terrestrial fly really bombs, ship flying false bomb
fly nine tons of oil five tons of ammunition that twice off the track is not very satisfactory. . Top is not satisfied that the ship is not in place with the machine. No fly fly twice.
Level of three hundred meters
warning planes in big trouble. . . . . . . . . . . .
Next year will be announced through various channels. . . . . Have nothing to hide. (20131104)
I do not know the situation 001A. . .
Come on partner flew over much earlier.
(Starfish) new platform in question, there is going to plan backwards delayed. . To change a number of areas. Body design criticized you, have to change, and being a drag. .
We have six hours of a calculation period. (Answer Liaoning prolonged high speed)
Internet that count pure specimens. According to a study, when the old man said I have a. (Answer online Y7 change plans)
flat 300 meters height of 60 meters and then it turned into a normal flight. We require more slippery deck below 25 meters in mind when you go out into a safety warning record.
(Starfish) 18.6 m 26 m 6.2 m Cruising speed should not be less than five hours cruising time in more than 500 have changed. . . . .
Weather conditions prevailing wind better, he felt a little harsh battlefield environment, then this will not work. (Answer flat three hundred meters let fly)
I will choose the right time to send some photos of the time.
Amount, no vest to wear. Is a stroll. Close up of data, then adjust adjustments. (Answer on whether to wear a vest deck)
has recently made ​​good progress, but also a little time to rest, so that made ​​up for that a few old Uncle happy about.
We require pilots landing oil reserves of at least about 15%. Most of the time with a little more than two tons of ammunition landing.
The next step to do exactly crosswind takeoff. This is our most stressful.
I do not ship personnel. . . . We collected data is not up every time I go.
(Starfish) is designed primarily focused catapult, but can slide flying leaps to 25 tons of weight.
Until now our tests are very conservative, leaving a large safety margin. After testing will gradually increase the intensity and difficulty.
Apart from AWACS and other very good progress smoothly so happy about is that a few old uncle. I quite usual for care of. For fun, I was ordered to, then you fail to get it. . . . . Some secrecy is basically irrelevant things. Oh very happy. . . . .
Study group members help each errands role on board the ship during the day and night to be the next run.
Was really good weather conditions, if the speed alone 24 may be sinking off the track, as much safety margin had left for testing, which has not yet started. The next step after the test finished crosswind takeoff might follow up.
In fact, this public figure's takeoff weight is 31 tons. . . . . . . . .
The take-off weight is 28.7 tons
9 tons of oil near point distance with the two bombs in two combat missiles. News did not broadcast the latter case, not very easy flight trajectory. 24
(empty weight) 18,700 kg. Operators oil pilot and two common pylons. Wingtip pylons are designed to
test the limits of our data has not yet begun. This is to engage in multiple batches crosswind landing and taking off and landing at night.
Amount. . . . . . KH41 not so great. Hanging of 3 (Answer fly five-ton bomb that new shells)
are two relatively new bomb
data obtained from other countries show Kuznetsov not long maintain 24 knots on takeoff caused the Soviet Union 33 greatly.
The run did not go to other places on the ship. We pick five numbers have to wait several research teams working errands.
After flying mount limit, the highest since flying is nearly 33 tons and 28.7 tons before the point. . . . . . Have not tested the limits of sinking off the track. Live mount also not tested, partners refuel only hung assembly did not finish primary refueling positions. Crosswind landing can not do it. . . There need to get it. Slowly.
There are several relatively heavy new ammunition. Ship and on the ground, more than a ton and two-ton else. They want to be able to get as far as possible under the conditions of the F-15 can do all kinds of data. . . .
Flying across the arms hang up there on KD88A YJ83K two new eggs. One ton more than one. . He's afraid that the second figure is close to the limit to mount it, mount it did not fly over the limit. (Answer alpine CG)
slip jump is to rely on its own power and aerodynamic performance aircraft, as long as the aircraft is strong enough force, able to take off aerodynamic, high thrust to weight ratio enough, in theory, take-off weight of the aircraft and unlimited.
Catapult contrast the advantage slip off more save more deck space so the deck can put more planes, more efficient takeoff, take off for bad weather conditions better adaptability. Many people catapult and incomplete understanding of the more slippery causing misunderstandings.
Before the point we are now flying over the highest weight is 28.7 tons, length 105 meters off takeoff distance is 95 meters more slippery such a short distance on the current level of engine thrust, but they are bound to use than almost catapulted distance. If the engine is much higher esteem Bibi now, before the point of take-off weight is not can not be compared with the catapult even larger. In the final analysis the level of engine thrust to weight ratio limit of the more slippery deck takeoff weight.
According to some of the data we get from abroad perspective. MiG-29K can be close to 22 tons of weight off the far point, fuel and ammunition total load can be up to 9 tons.
F-15 off the ship design index is the maximum weight limit of 34.5 tons. He should be the theoretical value of 38 tons of it. . . . Carrier-based aircraft training program which also did not say.
Single limit testing still early. Temporarily not see the experimental arrangement. Next crosswind landing live mount. Night landing times to actually carried out the initial tests, and will continue later. . . . The latter can be seen in the experimental schedule is off the next three points to bad weather conditions linked to bomb-intensive takeoff. . .
Oh. Come test carrier partners have not engaged, not assembled completely broke last major refueling pods fly a few times. Behind should continue to
have considered before actually MiG 29K. Because our data is given under section mothership more than 20 points can upload speed is much more than five tons of plug more than four tons of oil a combat mission. Taking all behind itself under consideration include performance requirements and the middle is also mixed with some of our stealth aircraft carrier development program (requested confidentiality) the situation immediately rejected.
It seems that the original decision right now. .
Is. To improve the aircraft carrier deck wind loads of great help, similar trajectory. Wind load 24 deck deck with no wind can vary between a few tons.
Agree that we still have not flown limit sink trajectory. And so well prepared after attempts. (Answer: This is actually flying leaps slip characteristics, does not allow许平飞segment appears to restrain the maximum weight slide flying leaps, or that of the constraints of the slide flying leaps efficiency, why not allow许平飞section appears only But flying leaps slippery in the world is still something new, inexperienced under dare to let go to try it.)
right, the U.S. aircraft carrier catapult heavy mount carrier aircraft carrier speed when sailing as needed to match off. Engage in nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in addition to the well-known benefits of high-speed pursuit continued to meet carrier-based aircraft is one of the main reasons.
The true, ultimate track test conducted Pugachev flew 31 tons more than the time before the point. Previously mentioned channels through Ukraine to get this thing inside of test data, track down to the drop-down across the board 20 Hashemian up. (Answer Pugachev flew over 31.8 tons the previous point)
have burrowed bombs, anti-ship missile, standoff weapons, a ton level about two tons level. . Not a relatively new model. (Answer the bomb)
Russia bile great, great pace than we go far. Pugachev fly before point 31 tons of capacity this Modan did not dare to try, almost crashed into the sea below the safety line before pulling up.
We are small Scattered firmly Dangdang.
Hundreds of vehicles through the test, China's Bohai Sea area and some seasonal weather conditions sometimes make the fighter force reduced by about 4%, has not found a higher thrust loss. This is why the level of 300 meters on top are not satisfied with the reasons, leaving a very large safety margin.
Without considering the contrast of natural wind 24 and Section 18 of this series of detailed data has been calculated dare not utter.
Relative calm state land and ship 24 plus natural wind speed test comparison the same takeoff angle from the same slide more load is the difference between several tons
Kuznetsov there is good speed for some time, but then for some reason After causing a power problem. Russia has also sent people to want to get some help. Is still under negotiation.
(Liaoning) slide deck angle shipyard to jump to the information that is 14.3 degrees.
The model you hang five tons. . . But beneath the rack inlet we tested only hung in the distance bombs. Outside the fold of the wing pylons can carry that around 850 kilograms of weapons. (20131116)
change KD88A satellite-guided glide bomb with a laser-guided bombs have anti-radiation missile Standoff Land missile missile missile in the distance there fighting self-defense. . . . On the ground no problem multitasking friends.
No. Mothership is a faster speed, heading and choose the right dress after wind greater thrust engines. . . Now hang three 1.5 tons of a certain type of cruise missile it flat on the ground 300 meters, the safety margin is still insufficient. (Answer for the presence or absence of support measures such as overweight rocket assisted take-off)
Minimum 24 Standard 30 (Liaoning answer would contain much J15)
the outer wing pylons can carry 920 kg fold around weapon. Muscle belly line pylons can string two 500 kg bombs or an anti-ship missile
from now know the data, two points off the F-15 before the oil can be added slightly more than the total load of ammunition MiG 29K195 meters off the maximum load . .
Leave some safety margin in exceptional circumstances should also improve 0.5-1 ton load, before flying over the highest point of the weight is now 28.7 tons. The entire flight trajectory without sinking but turn flat phenomenon.
Have long studied the pros and cons of the parties, had chosen to consider heavy machine heavy machine also make up for the gap with a good foundation ejection. . If the gap with words and F18E MiG-29K is too large. .
The same rough calculation deck area the same way more slippery deck of carrier-based aircraft carrier catapult machine capacity can reach 70% of
adverse weather conditions that can catapult takeoff sea conditions can be high one to two, the training ship out of the Liaoning takeoff four sea conditions.
The same conditions catapult overloaded efficiency is much higher than the more slippery way, compared with the Nimitz-class ship overloaded takeoff Liaoning efficiency of only 30% of its
requirements so the top is the way to go catapult. . . Second aircraft carrier made ​​real (not Liaoning ship and a modified) has been planned on the catapult.
850 - 920 kg, even the racks and racks of nonunion difference, 70 kg a rack generally overloaded, overweight that has a hundred kg. (Answer at the pylon in the end hanging wings folded multiple)
ones phased array radar? That seems to be the new heavier. . . We are not responsible for that. Bad comment, just know that the performance is very good. Pretend not to know exactly when. (J15 answer will change after the phased array radar)
F-15 wings folded position is mainly caused by loss of strength out of the rack.
Compare the performance of heavy-duty off Nimitz class, but better than Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier catapult kind of medium is not the problem. . .
Combat mission can reach 70% of the Nimitz class. This is also good.
Mass production with a grade of F-16 radar avionics systems. (Answer J15 radar)
in a safe manner, before the point should still have room for improvement 0.5-1 tons of load. This will continue in future training test. .
After the F-16 was basically to get, on top of very happy. Say a word. Our first generation of carrier-based aircraft have reached this level, it is our ocean protection.
Well, Liaoning ship's ammunition depot, engine compartment, the installation of some parts of the hangar, a newly developed materials and damage control equipment, what use is it? ? It seems useful.
MiG-29K heavy weapons hanging hang up to two other heavy-duty hanging points to hang drop tanks or else fly far, select the F-15 when it considered that.
F-15 and Su-33 on the external device only change some of the details, wings folded is also exactly the same length. 7.4 m
carrier battle tested training before testing experimental aircraft carrier task is completed it will all unfold. Before the end of 2014. . . . (Answer aircraft carrier test estimates even more time to complete)
the experimental point of view 2015 schedule to complete all the basic carrier based aircraft and testing tasks.
Detailed point should be said that in 2015 to complete basic single-seat F-15, a general-purpose helicopters, carrier testing laboratory tasks. . .
Three Pacific black, more than two thousand a meal, just a few ordinary dishes. . . (20131130)
while landing, take-off point mean number of 1.2 aircraft to fly combat duty or ready to take off at the same time, the recovery of aircraft landing with bombs. Officers say that this is very important. .
This is not new, previously considered officially get off the train.
Then. Others can only say very lively. Very exciting. I've never experienced that. Flash. Over time again. (Answer the South China Sea have a new subject)
turns drills, No. 1.2 takeoff plane flying out, landing aircraft fill the 2nd point position after the point to be ready to fly the aircraft ready to fly with bombs landed the plane landed, the second frame After landing the plane landed, the 1st point of takeoff, landing aircraft make up the second frame on the 1st position to be ready to fly. .
This cycle dozens of sorties. . . Of course, other aircraft hangar also rose up from the lifts turn drill.
This may be a long time. Two months is not afraid refused to go. It seems that over time I have to sit and security equipment transport aircraft back. (20131201)
Actually, from the angled deck center line to go out, J15 wingtips also rub less bias board. About 3 meters clearance.
Sanya, the place of consumption a little high. . . . . . This time I'm actually a little seasick signs. All the way to run a little faster. A little bumpy.
Finally back under stickers. The landing engage in high sea conditions, nocturnal batch landing (enhanced version). Fleet air defense training. . . . . . High sea conditions. Will spit. (20131201)
to participate in a long time since more than these three tests, but no exposure. . . J15 has entered the small batch production stage. This is more than three but not many. . .
Now there are about 20 or so left and right. . . .
The 2nd point and the plane landed while recycling operation has a certain amount of vehicles. Guarantee the same point before the recovery operation has one to two aircraft ready to take off combat duty. . . .
2015 ship machines to complete all experimental tasks. . . . . 2014-2015 will be a major carrier this happen. For example, a modified aircraft carriers and so on. Such as fixed-wing carrier-based AWACS might exposure. The 16th ship will be a peak period, you will see a lot of variety on the deck of the aircraft. Some of them are now not been on the news. (20,131,202)
in 2015 to complete all trials ship machine task is the organization of work. . Everything else is I guess. . Today, I see the information so developed also can not hide for long. . .
Until now the deck and have never operate simultaneously over five fighters. . . . Have to be patient.
The 2nd point while landing the job is already involved in the normalization of the training, not as dangerous.
But Russia's internal boiler boiler to an external device is to turn over all can be said beyond recognition. . .
Ah crosswind takeoff and landing training is essential subjects. . .
2 points while landing the job is already involved in one of the normal training
must have made ​​engine. Wait a long exposure time will slowly drop. . . (Answer follow-J15 engine)
time to prepare before temporarily not coming. . Ready to prepare myself to be seasick. Goodbye everybody. . (20131203)
very tired. Lost five pounds spit a dozen times. . . Nothing seems to effect seasickness medicine ah. Waves may also be too much. Reported that six sea conditions. . . . Also opened high speed! Stand. Test aircraft hangar and deck fixed. . . (20131223)
saying this whole ship electronic systems and electromagnetic testing compatibility escort ships, cruisers a country received a wind edgy open up. . .
The first time I saw a nearly 11 Artillery fire, starboard two buzzed voice. . . . Previously only colleague said. They met again, this time it's my turn feast for the eyes. . Hey
, I was nothing short reaction time can not stand. . . . But although fortunately still able to eat something spit. The ship had made ​​pizza. Redouble roots. . . Beverages will not dare drink the drink a little bit.
The new design of the body. . . (Answer starfish Why not Y12)
utility helicopter. . . . . Nine straight over.
25 deck wind 160 meters long flat deck can fly 25 tons of similar E2 nest pulp aircraft. . . We are walking towards this standard E2, E2 may exceed the technical specifications.
Also said he saw a black spot actually. . . Others do not say I thought it was a sesame. . . In the formation of regional conflict left and right just being disruptive. After seeing the ship's position in Liaoning would like to open up with straight lines. Midway is a ship blocked. (20131224)
ship kitchen really have salted duck eggs. . . . Breakfast porridge or milk to accompany the duck eggs with fried fritters ah. . There cabbage buns of pig meat.
Thank you. . . . . . Fruitful, then do not feel how tired. The most depressing thing last time to engage in a white hard. For example, waited all day for various reasons did not get the data of the time. .
Electronic level design of ultra-E2C. . . Of course, the actual test data out later after depends. . .
Can not say I can not say. . . . The future is not a joke. Three-year-old man.
More interesting thing I noticed. . Almost every time with the ship Reporter ah almost. . . . Confidential testing time for them to stay inside cabins Landlords sometimes make them out to shoot pictures. Ha ha ha. Are not allowed to touch alone.
One minute nearly one million rounds of firing rate yo. . . (Answer 11)
have ah, the test vessels and planes adapted hangar deck under high sea conditions must be fixed real aircraft, as well as a variety of helicopters. . (The answer to whether the band J15)
that ship and cruiser can only see a black dot just do not know how much. Separated too far.
With the opening of our destroyers some distance. The destroyer was about far more than 20 kilometers in Liaoning ship. Then open up towards Liaoning ship, a ship was stopped halfway. .
Near defense, electronic systems, sonar. . (Answer news that is integrated test combat systems, including what EMC)
is very good, with plenty of power, undulating, integrated combat systems are functioning properly. . . (Answer 6 sea state how the performance)
design can actually not hung over. . . . . . Just over two tons of hanging. (The answers J15 abdomen together using two hanging points can be pending pieces of 4 tons of weight)
flew over the high seas, the number of small, four sea conditions. . .
This time there are six highest sea conditions. . . . I was so spit.
2015 will see a ballpark. . (Answer warning planes progress)
Oh. . . . . . Americans to blame ah, they scurry about in the fleet sailing in the case of blocking the normal advance warning also attempted to close Liaoning ship, but fortunately it stopped halfway. . .
A sensor to measure the overall condition of the hull, to understand its different parts of the deformation moment, shear stress, deck suffered criticism force. . . .
Measure the bending stress of the hull, but the waves on the wet deck measurable attack force.
This stuff does not belong to the scope of my work. . . . . . . I then stayed to detect aircraft hangar fixed force. (What answer deck row of white object is)
nine to sit up some things to get another boat after climbing down from the ship. . . . (The answer is the first climb on the boat and ferry traffic ashore)
dare mighty, fly past me Shaoshang's passing. . . Uh uh uh. The older generation is really admirable, and I have been caring care. Moderators boss more than forty? ? ? I'm 82 years you a little, ah, you are also seniors.
Research and industry bodies seem not how. Stay up all night to boil it. There are frequent contact with harmful substances. . What's a long time down the rubber are hazardous to health. Cervical disease, chronic bronchitis, rhinitis them.
2015 revealed some probably should be on the ship early. . . . Unless there is significant progress (answer starfish)
2015 Liaoning ship is basically a young adults. . . To participate in the armed fight.
Well utility helicopter. . . Will develop carrier-based, I have not been involved in this series, the data do not know. .
Steadily advancing. The answer to that what little. . . . . . I feel spit. (Answer on Taihang ship)
So far I have been to the restaurant stayed bridge bay hangar deck. These laundry room. . But determined not become part of the hangar hangar because the front will lift slightly off the previous one a little bit. Then forward that the ammunition depot. . . (Answer Liaoning ship anti-ship missile originally put what has now become a place)
actually has a search and rescue helicopter on standby each flight news did not shoot the picture inside it. .
Slip jump aircraft, focusing on hull design. . . (Answer to a homemade aircraft carrier, will install steam catapults)
I only know the north. . (Answer a second aircraft carrier homemade)
2015 carrier aircraft aspects may have a surprise. . . . . Hey hey hey
a vital F-15 in a variety of modifications. . . Battle Force upgrade very helpful.
Cankuicankui a support staff along the way, engage in research than with a big difference. AVIC affiliated agencies. Assigned work by the group.
Band, sword 10? ? ? Seen passing. KD88A some laser-guided bombs guided glide bomb these satellite-to-ground weapons can bring. What's rocket nest so. . . (J15 can answer with a land attack munitions)
long. . . (Answer you gave 18.6 meters long or wingspan?)
so domestic carriers will expand a little slip jump width. . (Answer only from the 3rd AWACS long runway to take off, too wide wingspan bad scheduling)
will not say exactly. . . The test case about 195 meters off the tie under certain conditions, you can probably push the slide flying leaps more prudent than 0.72-0.75. . . . . 105 meters at the same conditions is about 0.86-0.88. . This can increase the 10 m deck What I do not know. . .
Before the batch is not AESA. Will slowly back on. Front floor also said this. Appropriate progress by the end of 2015 to 2016, then there is a relatively strong radar system will begin assembly, before the batch will gradually facelift. (Answer Autumn avionics and J16, as it is AESA radar, digital fax)
8 is not close to three tons of nearly four? With pylons 2.7 tons. . (Answer determine nearly three tons?)
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

The Su-33 provides massive benefits in logistics with the PLAs existing air fleet of flankers.
The Su-33 also has much superior range and payload compare to the Mig-29K, and unfortunately the PLA has no middle size between the naval flanker and fulcrum to choose from: ie, nothing F-18E or F-14 sized.

However I think the size of the Su-33 is one of the main benefits. While it is a big plane and will limit the numbers a carrier can embark, it's sheer range and endurance is very impressive. IMO the main drawback of carrier based aircraft is their reliance on land based tankers for longer range missions. The J-15 may be able to conduct some of those longer range missions with only internal fuel and/or limited buddy refuelling.


Also, there is already a flanker thread where J-15 discussion happens, I'm not sure if there is need for another.

Thanks Blitzo..I may move some of those recent J-15 post to this thread...

Enywho..large aircraft on an CV are laborious to handle. Time consuming to move about. And they eat up so much space. In my experience smaller is better on a CV.

You make some very valid points as far as range and endurance is concerned. The PLAN needs to have a tanker available for carrier borne operations.
 

hlcc

Junior Member
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

Another thing is going with mig29k means having to rely Russian weapons and unable to use the latest chinese ashm, aam etc
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

Others have already pointed out the inherent advantages a big airplane will have over a smaller one, I would just like to add that even though the J15 may be bigger than optimal for the Liaoning, the Chinese can, and will design their future carriers with the size of the J15 in mind, so it would be less of an issue.

One also has to consider the primary role the PLAN sees its carriers serving in the near to medium term, and that is fleet air defence and anti shipping strike.

For both those roles, bigger is better.

On CAP, a J15 can stay on station longer, carry more weapons, and have a bigger radar and more powerful avionics than a medium sized plane. The bigger fuel reserves is key, as it gives the J15 the luxury of punching in afterburners more often, and for longer than a smaller bird. That can be a huge advantage both in terms of getting to targets faster, ie, before they have a chance to launch at your surface fleet; and also in air combat itself, since the J15 pilot won't have to worry about whether or not he will have enough fuel to get home if he kicks in afterburners.

For anti-shipping, a bigger bird can carry heavier missiles further, and can allow you to strike at an enemy task group with near impunity if your opponent simply doesn't have planes with the legs to launch strike missions against you from such a range.

The only missions where more smaller birds would be superior would be in the CAS or other similar land attack roles, where sortie rate and number of targets hit per day matters. But since China has little to no aspirations to go colonising other lands no matter what Fox News might say, that's really not much of a drawback as far as the PLAN is concerned. And in the long term, I see such missions being farmed off to naval UCAVs anyways, so no need to baggage a new manned fighter with that requirement in this day in age I say.

In the long term, I see the PLAN introducing a stealth 5th gen naval fighter onto their carriers, either in the form of a naval J20, or J31, or maybe even something completely new that we haven't even heard of yet. In any case, this new carrier 5th gen will take over the CAP and air superiority roles from the J15, and the J15 itself can more into the strike and support roles, such as EW, tanker, forward drone controller, or any role where stealth is either not needed, or simply incompatible. The key is that its size gives it growth potential that a smaller airframe simply cannot hope to match.

So I see the J15 as in effect future proof, which is why it is a great choice. A naval J10B might be better for the Liaoning, but it will be obsolete as soon as something like the J31 and naval strike drones become operational, and will not have the flexibility to move into other roles as easily like the J15.

A Mig29K purchase would be even worse, since with something like the J10B, at least you have the option of adapting it to other roles if you really really wanted to, but with a purchased foreign aircraft, you'd be lucky to even be allowed to integrate your own weapons onto it.

So, to sum up, in my view, for someone like China at least:

- the Mig29K makes sense only in the short term, the benefits are you get everything up and running a year or two earlier. But in the medium to long term, it is likely to become more of a liability than an asset. Taking up deck space that could be used to house something far more capable (naval 5th gen) or useful (tanker/EW/drone controller J15). What more, you have the added logistical and operational costs and headaches of needing another set of foreign parts, and more problematically, weapons, that the rest of your air wing cannot use.

- a naval J10B would make sense in the medium term, giving you a more flexible, and capable, in certain fields, platform than the J15. But like the Mig29k, it will quickly become obsolete. A carrier J10B might have made sense if development work on it started 5, 10 years ago. But to start work on it now would not make much sense when the J31 is already flying, and unlike SAC, who's sole focus is on the Flanker family, I think CAC has too many, higher priority projects taking up the bulk of its resources that it won't be able to rush a carrier J10B as fast as SAC did with the J15. Just look at how long the J10B itself has taken.

Opting for the J15 probably has set the Liaoning back a year or two at least, but Chinese planners tend to focus on the big picture, and have plans and strategies that come may not come to fruition for decades. So for them, loosing a year or two in the short term means very little if there are significant gains to be had from that decision, 10, 15, 20 years down the line.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

The only missions where more smaller birds would be superior would be in the CAS or other similar land attack roles, where sortie rate and number of targets hit per day matters. But since China has little to no aspirations to go colonising other lands no matter what Fox News might say, that's really not much of a drawback as far as the PLAN is concerned. And in the long term, I see such missions being farmed off to naval UCAVs anyways, so no need to baggage a new manned fighter with that requirement in this day in age I say.


Larger aircraft might be technically superior to smaller aircraft at CAS on the basis of larger planes having greater endurance, greater payload, and range. However I'm not sure how say, a carrier stocked with multirole Su-33s would compare to the same carrier stocked to the brim with multriole Mig-29Ks.
I believe sortie rate is less important for CAS than the compounded "time/presence on station," so it becomes a balance between smaller but more aircraft, with each aircraft having less time on station but having more aircraft to fly over it with, or larger but less aircraft, which is naturally just vice versa.
Range may or may not come into CAS, but I'd believe that it wouldn't, simply on the basis that CAS is only requested once air superiority and control of the air is wrested (meaning any threats to the CAS bird's own carrier would probably be mitigated, allowing the CV in question to orbit in closer waters).

(It would be interesting if we coudl simulate time on station for a carrier laden with naval flankers versus naval fulcrums at specific distances between the carrier and the theater of conflict in question.)


However, range is completely essential if you are conducting strike missions against land targets defended by a capable military (I'm not sure if you include this in "other similar land attack roles"), because the range of your strike aircraft dictates how far away from the enemy you can park your carrier. This of course, is the big hoopla about the AShBM, because it's meant to push carriers further from China's shore, making meaningful strike missions by USN airwings less realistic at such ranges.


Basically, I agree that carrier based CAS missions against low intensity foes might be better served by smaller aircraft, but carrier based strike missions against high intensity foes are better done by larger aircraft.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

In fact, F-14 was throwed out of CV not because of its sheer size by because of cutting down maintenance and logistic cost.
The mechanical steering of F-14 wing is way too expensive to maintain.

I don't care if the F-14 Tomcat was a maintenance queen, IMO she was the prettiest bird that the US Navy had ever possess. It's like you dated and slept with a beauty queen but now married and had to settle down with your current wife (F-18) which is good, but deep down it's no comparison. Hehehe....giggity.:eek::p
 

Franklin

Captain
Re: J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread

Its right for China to build her own naval based fighters instead of buying them from abroad. Buying foreign planes will take a significant chunk of your independence away. Building a domestic plane will help push the aviation industry into new territories.

The debate between Flankers vs Fulcrums is a debate between having a bigger air wing vs. a air wing with greater range.
 
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