About the 5.8mm bullet

dannytoro

New Member
........Actually the .223 Remington (5.45 x 45) is a tapered case:

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..It's also not very effective much beyond 400 meters, where it's energy rapidly falls off . I'd like to see more on the 5.8 Chinese round. I would not think it would be much better then 5.56. Personally I concur with the british study which found bullets near 7mm to be the ideal trade off. In particular, 6.5mm bullets of 120 grains weight offer low recoil, high velocity,high ballistic co-effecient,ideal sectional density for good penetration and normally very good accuracy. As an added bonus, snipers can move up to the excellent long range qualities of low drag 140 grain bullets.........
 

UCSDAE

New Member
if i m not mistaken, China is the only one with the 5.8mm right now. in another word, shall other factions(like terrorist org.) get their hands on it, they can't use their own ammo clips on it. (remeber the sino-vietnamese war and the AKs?)
 

Red not Dead

Junior Member
VIP Professional
UCSDAE said:
if i m not mistaken, China is the only one with the 5.8mm right now. in another word, shall other factions(like terrorist org.) get their hands on it, they can't use their own ammo clips on it. (remeber the sino-vietnamese war and the AKs?)


China can't affort such a spreading. Pollitically. Since they're the only to use the round the finger would be pointed towards them pretty quickly. Guess the m43 has still some bright days to come.
 

soaringsoul

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Oh no, how could chinese spread their weapons to terrorists? The terrorists trying to make several chinese province independent...
 

Red not Dead

Junior Member
VIP Professional
soaringsoul said:
Oh no, how could chinese spread their weapons to terrorists? The terrorists trying to make several chinese province independent...

Yeah but they could help other terrorists like the Iraqi resistance groups or the south Asian cells.
 

SAWGunner89

New Member
Registered Member
dannytoro said:
........Actually the .223 Remington (5.45 x 45) is a tapered case:

..It's also not very effective much beyond 400 meters, where it's energy rapidly falls off . QUOTE]

Do you mean the lethality of the cartridge or the actual accuracy of the cartridge. If you mean the accuracy, then I am afraid that you are wrong. I participate in long-range high-powered rifle meets, and have used the 5.56x45mm NATO round out to 600 yards with much accuracy. There is no doubting that it is not lethal even at close range. Reports of the failing lethality of the SS109 round having been coming back to the US since 1993, when during the US intervention in Somalia. Troops were having to shoot people multiple times before they would even go down, if they did at all. The SS-109 rounds have a tendancy to continue through the target before destabilising enough to cause any damage. Unless it hits a major organ or the spine, the victim of the wound would not go down.

Also, the NATO round was never really lethal. The new Mk.262 77-grain round is the closest it has ever gotten to being as lethal as many other weapons (i.e. AK-47, AK-74, QBZ-95).

However, the 5.56x45mm was at one time just as lethal as the other contendors, specifically during the Vietnam Conflict era. US weapons were then chambered for the 5.56x45mm M193, a more ballistically unstable round that often resulted in gapping wounds in the target. The change was made to the NATO round in the early 1980's to make the 5.56 round more accurate in artic conditions. I bet the US Military Acquisition board regrets making the change now, after reports of the terrible lethality of the round were started anew during Operation Enduring Freedom in 2001 and now in Operation Iraqi Freedom.
 

RedMercury

Junior Member
Kampfwagen said:
I personaly think Chinese reports are seriously B-Sing when it comes to the power of the 5.8MM bullet. It is likely superior in firepower when it comes to the 5.56 NATO and the 5.45 Soviet/Russian, but to say it outdoes both NATO AND Soviet 7.62MM in the power department?

I haven't read claims that it outdoes (let's be specific here, in terms of accuracy at range and penetration at range) the NATO 7.62mm. I have heard claims that the heavy version (sniper/gpmg/saw) of the 5.8mm, not the regular version, is as good as the soviet 7.62 full rifle round (which version? dunno. I suspect the latest and greatest soviet 7.62 are still better).
 

monitor

New Member
Registered Member
if the target(S) is more than 400 metres away from you just pass it on to the sniper or artilleryman.
 

MrClean

New Member
Man, a bullet is a bullet. When you get up into the .30 calibers when you hit what you are shooting at you are going to blow the crap out of it. I know, from personal experience that a .30-06, which happens to be VERY ballistically similar to the 7.62x51 NATO, can punch through damn near a third of an inch of solid steel plate at 300+ yards with EASE. And I was using 150 grain remington boat-tail rounds, which is the standard.

I am not so sure about the performance specifications of the 7.62x54 Russian round, but you could probably say with confidence that it and the two rounds I mentioned above would all have VERY similar performance. Especially in penetration of steel and wood etc, but when it comes to accuracy I happen to know that the 7.62x51 NATO is very accurate out to 450+ yards, and depending on who you ask is a 'little bit' more accurate than the .30-06 7.62x63. We are talking inches out to about 600 yards, and then these bullets begin to drop ALOT, and unless you are a super trained sniper with an Uber sniper rifle, scope, spotting scope etc, you are not going to be able to hit anything delibrately. I am sure that this is true when it comes to the Russian round aswell, but I really wouldn't expect it to be any better than the 762x51 NATO. Because from what I have heard, the Ruskies haven't always been known for their quality of ammunition, 7.62x39 casings are made of tin to reduce cost, but I don't know if it is the same case with all Russian ammunition.

As for the 5.8x42 Chinese versus the 5.56x45 NATO versus the 5.45x39 Russian, it is probably the same case of similarity. Because what the manufacturers of all of these bullets were trying to achieve was basically the same thing; smaller, lighter rounds makes it easier to carry and cheaper to mass produce, but still kill people. If you ask me these smaller rounds are inferior, and that is the same opinion of some of the SF guys that are in country right now. That is why they are considering replacing the 5.56x45NATO here in the U.S. If it is replaced, it will probably be replaced with something similar to the 6.8x43 remington, which has the accuracy of the lighter rounds out to 500 yrds, but the knockdown power of the heavier rounds, which is exactly what the SF guys are looking for. I think that it would be a better combat round than the smaller rounds, coming from someone who has never been in combat before. But I have shot plenty of pretty much all of the rounds mentioned above except 5.8mm Chinese, 5.45x39 USSR, 7.62X51 NATO, and 7.62x54 USSR.

Well, theres my 2 cents:D
 
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Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Nice post there Mr Clean...


if the target(S) is more than 400 metres away from you just pass it on to the sniper or artilleryman.


well we artillery arent going to be shooting anything under horizon...maybe mortarfire, but not artillery
 
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