Terror attack in Xinjiang

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superdog

Junior Member
12 guys, 11 cleavers and 2 axes. Coincidence?
I only see one guy being detained in the picture, and it doesn't look like the police were facing 11 other guys outside the picture, plus there was no reason for the photo taker not to take a picture of the other assailants, when he was apparently allowed to photograph the scene. Normally you'd see a lot more manpower there and a large area being fenced off if this was indeed a foiled terrorist attack with 12 terrorists getting caught. Therefore I think this is probably a fabricated rumor, which happens all the time on the Internet.

Here is an explanation (supposedly came from the police department) about the pictured situation:
2014年5月21日12时,市公安局网格化巡控力量在三运司宾馆前发现一名男子提一红色尿素袋,内有菜刀10把,斧头2把,后经查证此男子系去铁匠铺磨刀的某餐厅工作人员,现对相关人员给予批评教育。请广大市民切勿传谣信谣。市公安局宣
It says there was only one man with a bag of cleavers and axes, after investigation it was found that he works for a restaurant and was bringing them to a shop for sharpening. However I was unable to find the source of this statement to confirm.
 

justadude

New Member
Registered Member
I'd say kudos to the police officers for apprehending him. With the recent knife killings of innocent people, erring on the side of caution was obviously the right thing to do.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Just out of curiosity --- did the World Uighur Congress attempt to justify the bombing as a "Chinese setup" yet? What is their stance on this incident?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
You don't need an army. If the feeds are being recorded the authorities can trace where they've been and went within the city.
...uh, you mean, like PRISM?

If you do not see something developing in real time, all you are left to do is go back and look at the info collected beforehand and try and piece together what happened.

In today's world, this leads to intelligence and law enforcement agencies wanting more and more info...and using every means available to build that data base. Every phone call, every email, every web entry, every video, every credit card transaction becomes a natural target for such agencies to build a data base that they can then use software on to go back and find tell tale signs. This is how PRISM came to be.

The 1st problem is, before long, every individual is viewed by these agencies as a potential criminal and treated as such with respect to their personal info, and sooner or later predictive programs are used to predict what they might do.

The 2ns even bigger problem (and it is unavoidable when you give into to this type of thing) then becomes that those in political power positions are tempted beyond their ability to resist to use that same info for political purposes.

BTW, this post/statement is not meant as a political diatribe. No, it is just an explanation of human nature.

It does not matter who is in charge. It does not matter which side of the so-called "aisle" you are talking about. Once this type of power is available...they will all use it no matter who they are....and then, it's welcome to 1984.

Honorable, virtuous leaders will not go near such a concentration of power, and will fight against it because they see and realize the temptation.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I hope the Chinese authorities are able to ultimately identify and bring to justice these terrorists...because that is what they are...who are killing innocent people like this.

As has been said...be careful of not over-reacting...but in my mind, using tried and true Law enforcement investigative tactics directed at the criminals specifically to identify them, catch them, get every single bit of G2 out of them possible, and then executing them for their crimes is what needs to happen.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
...uh, you mean, like PRISM?

If you do not see something developing in real time, all you are left to do is go back and look at the info collected beforehand and try and piece together what happened.

In today's world, this leads to intelligence and law enforcement agencies wanting more and more info...and using every means available to build that data base. Every phone call, every email, every web entry, every video, every credit card transaction becomes a natural target for such agencies to build a data base that they can then use software on to go back and find tell tale signs. This is how PRISM came to be.

The 1st problem is, before long, every individual is viewed by these agencies as a potential criminal and treated as such with respect to their personal info, and sooner or later predictive programs are used to predict what they might do.

The 2ns even bigger problem (and it is unavoidable when you give into to this type of thing) then becomes that those in political power positions are tempted beyond their ability to resist to use that same info for political purposes.

BTW, this post/statement is not meant as a political diatribe. No, it is just an explanation of human nature.

It does not matter who is in charge. It does not matter which side of the so-called "aisle" you are talking about. Once this type of power is available...they will all use it no matter who they are....and then, it's welcome to 1984.

Honorable, virtuous leaders will not go near such a concentration of power, and will fight against it because they see and realize the temptation.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It's China! China doesn't go around the world holding out romantic idealism as to justify dictating to the world what's best for everyone else. The only people that are going to complain are Western countries that say they don't do such things. I hope you're not suggesting hypocrisy on my part... I don't care what the US needs to do what it sees as necessary. Just don't lie that they don't do it or tell others they can't do it themselves. That's the hypocrisy. That's what I have an issue with.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The 1st problem is, before long, every individual is viewed by these agencies as a potential criminal and treated as such with respect to their personal info, and sooner or later predictive programs are used to predict what they might do.

Um, that's not a problem, that's the whole point!

The ultimate goal is to prevent future terrorist attacks, and you need advanced warning to have any realistic chance to do that.

In many ways, you can use how modern warships defend themselves against attacks to illustrate how counter terrorism works.

Ideally you kill the launch aircraft before it is in the air. That is akin to taking out terrorist training camps or taking out terrorist leaders' meetings.

If enemy strikers take off, you want to intercept them while they are still transiting. Equivalent to catching terrorists at the boarder, or taking out safe houses that cells are using to plan and prepare for attacks.

If the enemy striker launched missiles, you try to shoot them down with layered missile defenses. That's like intercepting terrorist cells en rout to their target, evacuating the target and having SWAT waiting for them when they arrive etc.

All of that above requires advanced warning to do, and unless the terrorists you are dealing with are absolute morons who update their Facebook status as 'launching terrorist attack now', you will need to use predictive software to find the warning signs from seemingly normal daily activities. And that is precisely what governments and law enforcement agencies the world over have been doing for years if not decades.

Relying on some security guard or beat cop to be in the right place at the right time and have John McClane like skills and blind luck to be able to save the day would be akin to the captain of the ship being attacked strolling out on deck and one-shoting the incoming AShM with his service revolver. Mathematically possible, but you'd have better odds winning the lottery.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
Let's be blunt about this: China is targeted buy Islamic terror groups. There is no point in beating around the bush - if you want to fight them you have to name them. Most of these groups are training in Pakistan, and their members have been indoctrinated in local deobandi and wahhabi madrasas , funded with Saudi money. Pakistani authorities are turning blind eye because they to receive generous "donations" from Saudis. China basically has two options: 1. either to pressure Pakistani government to do something about this or 2. to reconsider its special relationship with this country.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Let's be blunt about this: China is targeted buy Islamic terror groups. There is no point in beating around the bush - if you want to fight them you have to name them. Most of these groups are training in Pakistan, and their members have been indoctrinated in local deobandi and wahhabi madrasas , funded with Saudi money. Pakistani authorities are turning blind eye because they to receive generous "donations" from Saudis. China basically has two options: 1. either to pressure Pakistani government to do something about this or 2. to reconsider its special relationship with this country.

Or option 3, use that special relationship to get Pakistan to do something about it, while at the same time not making a public spectical of doing so to avoid embarressing the Pakistanis.

And FYI, its not just the Pakistani government that China has a special relationship with, if anything, the Pakistani people are more friendly towards China.

In that regard, I hold serious reservations about just where these terrorists got their training and funding, because it has been reported in the past that Uighur terrorist wannabes were shunned, turned away, or even reported to the authories when they tried to get training in Pakistan, since the Pakistani Taliban knew that they wanted to kill Chinese. I just do not see that changing now.

The US has been accusing the Pakistanis of hosting terrorist training camps in their tribal areas for over a decade now. If they were willing to train Uighurs, it seems distinctly odd that terrorist attacks in China have been largely low-tech, low-impact and target mainly government and security forces until this recent wave.

Pakistan just doesn't fit and doesn't make sense. But somewhere else does fit, and makes perfect sense, and that's Syria and Turkey.

Much of Syria is now a lawless jihadi wonderland, where terrorist wannabes could not only get training and equipment, but also get real combat experience fighting against a 3rd rate government army, so they stand a decent chance of surviving long enough to accumulate a decent amount of experience and know how before returning home.

Its also the worst kept secret in the world that Turkey hosts training camps for jihadist and terrorists wanting to fight Assad, and the Turks are far more likely to be sympathetic towards Uighurs and train them than the Pakistanis. Erdogan himself made some pretty inflamitory, and frankly, stupid comments during the mass riots in Xinjiang. He back peddled pretty quickly when it became blatantly obvious how wrong he was, but it showed his bias and sympathies clearly.

If I was in charge of counter terrorism in China, I would be looking long and hard at the Syrian and Turkish connection rather than assume the western default setting of blaming Paksitan for everything terrorism related.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Taking action against Pakistan isn't going to stop terrorism. Pakistanis probably suffer more terrorism than mostly anyone else. So I don't think all of Pakistan is on the same page to do something as to suggest they could. Pressuring the government will do very little even if they tried. Problem is China's need to maintain an image that's delusional in the first place. If the Uighurs want to leave, let them. Who cares if it looks like a horrible place for them to live that they want to leave. China already has the image of a police state. A surveillance camera system like London will do a lot against organized terrorism. A terrorist attack happens and they can be traced by recorded feeds. The police can raid every building they enter that is suspect.

Let's also not forget that what the terrorists in China do is different from the terrorists that target the West. Terrorists against the West are direct against those that they see have wronged them to obtain what they want. In China, terrorists are hoping to get outside sympathetic attention to get them to pressure China to give them what they want. There are others just as easy to blame than Pakistan for terrorism in China.
 
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