2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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nicky

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from today's report of the Chief of Ukrainian Security Service in Parliament (Supreme Rada):
"within the area of "anti-terror operation" people do not trust government forces" (Valentin Nalivaychenko)

another news also comes from official Ukrainian sources: fifteen helicopter pilots from 16th Army Assault Brigade refused to fly for rescue of the crew of the downed helicopter gunship. this brigade comes from the western part of the country (Brody). all pilots will now face military tribunal.
 

SampanViking

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Ukraine moves special forces to Odessa, helicopter downed in east



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So the replacement of a civil Police Force with a Maidan "Party" Police Force in Odessa. That will help calm things down.

nicky - do you have a link for your story?

Otherwise on another day when events seem to have gone very quiet again, I note that we are only five days away from the Donbass referendum. If they vote in favour of independence and then ask Putin for Peace Keepers, it could get very interesting.

In the meantime, I wonder if we will see Russian based aid conveys try to take food and medicine into Slavyansk and other blockaded towns? Maybe even the Red Cross being involved?
 

Jeff Head

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from today's report of the Chief of Ukrainian Security Service in Parliament (Supreme Rada):
"within the area of "anti-terror operation" people do not trust government forces" (Valentin Nalivaychenko)
Link to this?

another news also comes from official Ukrainian sources: fifteen helicopter pilots from 16th Army Assault Brigade refused to fly for rescue of the crew of the downed helicopter gunship. this brigade comes from the western part of the country (Brody). all pilots will now face military tribunal.
Link to this?

Nicky, this is a highly volatile and emotional topic.

It will not do to just throw hearsay out on this fourm. If you cannot link to it...and as has been stated in the past...the link needs to be to an impartial and credible source...then please, simply do not post such things on SD.

We will avoid the idological and political parts of this as much as we possibly can because such conversations, when they are based on those things, and when they occur on a forum that has as many people from all over the world as we have, invariably lead to arguements and trouble.

Thanks.
 

nicky

Junior Member
Well guys, you'd really better not to trust hearsay, even if it comes from State Dept. spokespersons or Moscow :eek:


Just watch pro-"Maidan" independent TV stations:

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it's very easy to google-translate headlines:

Населення зони АТО не довіряє українським силовикам — Наливайченко
(Chief of National Security responsible for anti-terror operation in the east)

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Військових, які відмовилися рятувати екіпаж збитого Мі-24, віддадуть під трибунал, — АПУ

or read Ukrainian press:

Сенченко: 15 військових підуть під трибунал за відмову рятувати збитих у Слов’янську пілотів
(Deputy Chief of President's Administration)
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the above links and reports of Ukrainian officials only illustrate the complexity of the situation in the country divided at least on three different (history, language, economy) areas (if only we forget a small part of Romania and, perhaps, Hungary).
 
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SampanViking

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Well I think there is little doubt now that the latest offensive by the Ukrainian army against the Donbass rebels has gone the same way as the previous ones and ground to a halt.

It does seem to illustrate that irrespective of where the troops come from, that for whatever reason (and I am sure that there are many) the Ukrainian army is not prepared to storm rebel held areas and make a real fight of it.

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The impression given is that the army is prepared to make a general deployment, but only really prepared to set up check points outside of the occupied towns and make the occasional raid on an outer position or trade some sniper fire. Even in Mariupol (a relatively soft target by all accounts) where the army went in and recaptured the city hall, the rebels simply moved out in advance, waited for the army to withdraw and simply re-occupied the building.
RT is reposting the movement of heavy armour and artillery (incl grad rocket systems) around Slavyansk and has posted video in support. I have to say though, that like so many deployments in the area, it looks mostly for show and that even if Kiev was insane enough to issue the order, I very much doubt that the commanders would obey it.
Should such an order be issued and carried out, you do not need to be a psychic to predict the likely consequences.

It is now four days to go before the Donbass referendum on Sunday.
The military tasked to retake the Donetsk regions cities and prevent it are making no progress
In many areas of the country, the civil police are abandoning their posts in utter disillusionment
Kiev is having to draft in its new Civil defence units to bolster or replace police
Kiev itself is surrounding itself with multi layered security to prevent the risk of attack from its opponents, mostly anticipating trouble on May 9th, the anniversary of the victory of the Red Army over the Third Reich.

The big question and one still awaiting a clear answer, is how much the ordinary Ukrainian citizen, throughout the country, is tiring of the ongoing crisis and the clumsy actions of Kiev and prepared to accept the Federal solution as the answer to preserving national unity and stability?
 

Kurt

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Do you know if the German Embassy in Ukraine is still open?
Recalling citizens is a first step before closing shop. Probably outliers of the German embassy are being closed, but it's unlikely that the contact in Kiev will be halted. There's simply too much diplomatic stuff to handle with all that contact between Germany and Ukraine.
Here's the homepage of the embassy.
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They are still open and do tell people not to travel to Crimea as well as list up as Germans in Ukraine for quick contact.
 
Fair point and no I am never offended by far criticism. You are right if you want to know who said and ordered what, but tt would make the forum a pretty slow place if we had to wait for the definitive answers before we discussed.

Some things are available straight away, thanks mainly to modern social media and of course the plethora of news channels.

1) Turchynov specifically identifies Odessa as a target to stop Pro Federalists only two days before the event.

2) Hardcore football hooligans from the fans of both sides of a football match Chernomorets and Metalic Kharkov march together with other Pro Maidan supporters including Right Sector militants!

This is weird by itself as opposing hooligans usually are too busy taking lumps out of each other, to band together.
In addition, as a member of the UK generation that grew up while Ulster was in the deepest throes of the troubles, I have no doubt about the significance of "marches" in areas of sectarian division.

3) The far smaller Pro-Russian gathering is referred to consistently as a rally. This means people meeting at a fixed point, and there is no mention of any march involved in their activities.

4) The presence of a leading Pro-Russian local politician and Mayoral candidate.
With across the board elections due in less than four weeks, the assumption that the rally is an election rally for this local leader and candidate is hardly a leap of deduction. This is only compounded by the location and its significance as you yourself pointed out today.

5) The Pro Maidan marchers made their way from the where they started and came to where the rally was taking place.
Given that the rally did not include a march, but was taking place in a single location means that there is no other possible explanation for the two groups coming into contact with each other.
There have been reports of clashes with the Pro Maidan marchers before they arrived at the rally. This again is no surprise if they were marching by or through strongly pro Russian neighbourhoods en-route. This sort of thing will always cause trouble during times of sectarian tension and such problems persist each year to this very day, over Loyalist marches through Republican areas of Belfast.
This ignores the notion of a small group attacking a another group that was ten times there size. That is a greater willing suspension of disbelief than I am prepared to give

6) Ukrainian politics are a rich man's game, especially at regional level or mayoral level for a major city and regional Capital. Albu will then be a wealthy man and if joined by more senior party bigwigs, they would be very wealthy men as well. Such men in Ukraine will have bodyguards and these bodyguards will be armed.
This to me is the obvious explanation for how some Pro Maidan marchers were shot and killed when the rioting started as these body guards will have no qualms over using deadly force if their employers are in danger. Also, lets be honest, if you want to stop a movement spreading into your city, leadership decapitation is a good option and hiding it in a riot at a political rally as good a way of doing it as I can think of.
Further of course, had this been a militant rally of little green men with Kalashnikovs that came under attack, then there would have been far more fatalities and mostly form the Pro-Maidan side.

7) The VIP's and the rally supporters fell back from the square to the assumed protection of the Trade Unions House to escape the riot. We all know what happened next and Mr Albu could easily have been a victim in the fire.

So we may not know who said what to who and why certain things happened etc, but I am confident that the above is the general gist of the events based by what is already in the public domain. Once again, I would welcome any further information; supporting or detracting, if anyone has it.

SampanViking, you may confront your theory with what's here:
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(google-translate should work; a Czech eye-witness (somebody who was in Odessa on May 2) confirms the pictures are authentic, he's taken similar by himself -- this discomforted some people on a Czech leftist server heheh). You may even tell us if you still think that firearms were used by the members of a protective detail of a local politician ...
 
Well guys, you'd really better not to trust hearsay, even if it comes from State Dept. spokespersons or Moscow :eek:

...

yeah that's funny, and I knew (before your post) the first "rumor" you posted had been true (I didn't know about the second one, though) BUT I think you should've given the links from the start, for example because you can trust NOBODY involved in the Ukrainian crisis, you can only try to "cross-examine" various reports, but without links you can't do even that :)
 

Air Force Brat

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SampanViking, you may confront your theory with what's here:
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(google-translate should work; a Czech eye-witness (somebody who was in Odessa on May 2) confirms the pictures are authentic, he's taken similar by himself -- this discomforted some people on a Czech leftist server heheh). You may even tell us if you still think that firearms were used by the members of a protective detail of a local politician ...

Jura, what is the significance of the folks wearing medieval armor, of course the captions are in Russian, and I would really be interested in your synapsis of these events, keep it simple for the brat if you can???
 
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