Kissinger: Conflict with China not an option

SampanViking

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The following is an article written by Henry Kissinger last June. It is well worth reading, especially by some of the younger and more impressionable members on both sides of the PRC vs US debate.

Dr. Henry Kissinger, former US secretary of state, receives a gift sword during his visit to the Shaolin Temple in Henan Province in this May 12, 2005 photo. [newsphoto]

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BEJIJING, June 10 (iht.com, by Henry A. Kissinger) -- The relationship between the United States and China is beset by ambiguity. On the one hand, seven presidents have affirmed the importance of cooperative relations with China and a commitment to a one-China policy.

Nevertheless, ambivalence has suddenly re-emerged. Various U.S. officials, members of Congress and the news media are attacking China's policies, from the exchange rate to military buildup, much of it in a tone implying that China is on some sort of probation.

Before continuing on this subject, I must point out that the consulting company I chair advises clients with business interests around the world, including China. Also, in early May, I spent a week in China, much of it as a guest of the government.

The rise of China - and Asia - will, over the next decades, bring about a substantial reordering of the international system. The center of gravity of world affairs is shifting from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

China's emerging role is often compared to that of imperial Germany at the beginning of the last century, the implication being that a strategic confrontation is inevitable and the United States had best prepare for it. That assumption is as dangerous as it is wrong. Military imperialism is not the Chinese style. China seeks its objectives by careful study, patience and the accumulation of nuances.

It is also unwise to apply to China the policy of military containment of the cold war. The Soviet Union was the heir of an imperialist tradition. The Chinese state in its present dimensions has existed substantially for 2,000 years.

Taiwan is often invoked as a potential trigger. This could happen if either side abandons the restraint that has characterized U.S.-Chinese relations on the subject for more than a generation. But it is far from inevitable. All major countries have recognized China's claim that Taiwan is part of China. So have seven American presidents of both parties, none more emphatically than President George W. Bush.

With respect to the overall balance, China's large and educated population, its vast markets, its growing role in the world economy and global financial system foreshadow an increasing capacity to pose an array of incentives and risks, the currency of international influence.

Short of seeking to destroy China as a functioning entity, however, this capacity is inherent in the global economic and financial processes that America has been pre-eminent in fostering.

The test of China's intentions will be whether its growing capacity will be used to seek to exclude America from Asia or whether it will be part of a cooperative effort.
Paradoxically, the best strategy for achieving antihegemonic objectives is to maintain close relations with all the major countries of Asia, including China. In that sense, the rise of Asia will be a test of America's competitiveness in the world now emerging, especially in the countries of Asia.

The vast majority of Asian nations view their relations with the United States in terms of their perception of their own interests. In a U.S. confrontation with China, they would seek to avoid choosing sides; at the same time, they would generally have greater incentives for participating in a multilateral system with America than adopting an exclusionary Asian nationalism.

They will not want to be seen as pieces of an American design. India, for example, finds no inconsistency between its improving relations with the United States and proclaiming a strategic partnership with China.

China, in its own interest, is seeking cooperation with the United States for many reasons, including the need to close the gap between its own developed and developing regions; the imperative of adjusting its political institutions to the accelerating economic and technological revolutions; the potentially catastrophic impact of a cold war with America on the continued raising of the standard of living, on which the legitimacy of the government depends.

But from this it does not follow that any damage to China caused by a cold war would benefit America. The United States would have few followers anywhere in Asia. Asian countries would continue trading with China. Whatever happens, China will not disappear. The American interest in cooperative relations with China is for the pursuit of world peace.

Attitudes are psychologically important. China needs to be careful about policies that seem to exclude America from Asia and about U.S. sensitivities regarding human rights, which will influence the flexibility and scope of America's stance toward China.

America needs to understand that a hectoring tone evokes in China memories of imperialist condescension and is not appropriate in dealing with a country that has managed 4,000 years of uninterrupted self-government.

As a new century begins, the relations between China and the United States may well determine whether our children will live in turmoil even worse than the 20th century or whether they will witness a new world order compatible with universal aspirations for peace and progress.

(Henry A. Kissinger, former US secretary of state, heads the consulting firm Kissinger and Associates.)

(Courtesy of International Herald Tribune)
 

walter

Junior Member
Thank you Sampan for posting this article--Kissinger keeps it short, to the point and thankfully in balanced perspective. If only he had as much clout on capitol hill as he once did, but, alas, it seems these days only retired statesmen, uninfluenced by interest groups, can say what needs to be said in Washington. I would hope the US mass media and many congressmen could one day soon grasp some of the points he makes:

Military imperialism is not the Chinese style

America needs to understand that a hectoring tone evokes in China memories of imperialist condescension and is not appropriate in dealing with a country that has managed 4,000 years of uninterrupted self-government.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
SampanViking said:
The rise of China - and Asia - will, over the next decades, bring about a substantial reordering of the international system. The center of gravity of world affairs is shifting from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Taiwan is often invoked as a potential trigger. This could happen if either side abandons the restraint that has characterized U.S.-Chinese relations on the subject for more than a generation. But it is far from inevitable. All major countries have recognized China's claim that Taiwan is part of China. So have seven American presidents of both parties, none more emphatically than President George W. Bush.

The test of China's intentions will be whether its growing capacity will be used to seek to exclude America from Asia or whether it will be part of a cooperative effort.

The vast majority of Asian nations view their relations with the United States in terms of their perception of their own interests. In a U.S. confrontation with China, they would seek to avoid choosing sides; at the same time, they would generally have greater incentives for participating in a multilateral system with America than adopting an exclusionary Asian nationalism.

They will not want to be seen as pieces of an American design. India, for example, finds no inconsistency between its improving relations with the United States and proclaiming a strategic partnership with China.


But from this it does not follow that any damage to China caused by a cold war would benefit America. The United States would have few followers anywhere in Asia. Asian countries would continue trading with China. Whatever happens, China will not disappear. The American interest in cooperative relations with China is for the pursuit of world peace.

Attitudes are psychologically important. China needs to be careful about policies that seem to exclude America from Asia and about U.S. sensitivities regarding human rights, which will influence the flexibility and scope of America's stance toward China.

America needs to understand that a hectoring tone evokes in China memories of imperialist condescension and is not appropriate in dealing with a country that has managed 4,000 years of uninterrupted self-government.

(Henry A. Kissinger, former US secretary of state, heads the consulting firm Kissinger and Associates.)

(Courtesy of International Herald Tribune)

Kissinger is a snake. He seeks to place honey on a knife.

Paragraph 1. Correction the centre of power will shift to the East. The centre of gravity will be the Indian Ocean/Persian Gulf.

Paragraph 2. The restraint will have to be on the American side.

Paragraph 3 & 4. The Asian states particularly in the case of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Pakistan, the Stans all have large Muslim populations who will be ABSOLUTELY opposed to any alliance with America so long as it's middle eastern policy remains in the hands of rabid jewish zionists like Kissinger

Paragraph 5. The Indians are not stupid enough to believe in 'friendship'
with America. The American goal is to turn India into a Japan for the 21st century. They hope to control the rise of India via manipulation of it's financial markets and then bring it down when they're done.

Paragraph 7. What kissinger is really saying here is that if you try to exclude us from Asia we will raise the issue of minority human rights. :D

Kissingers diplomacy is based on 400 years of colonialism. That period is about to come to an end.
 

walter

Junior Member
FreeAsia2000 said:
Kissinger is a snake. He seeks to place honey on a knife.

Paragraph 1. Correction the centre of power will shift to the East. The centre of gravity will be the Indian Ocean/Persian Gulf.

Paragraph 2. The restraint will have to be on the American side.

Paragraph 3 & 4. The Asian states particularly in the case of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, India, Pakistan, the Stans all have large Muslim populations who will be ABSOLUTELY opposed to any alliance with America so long as it's middle eastern policy remains in the hands of rabid jewish zionists like Kissinger

Paragraph 5. The Indians are not stupid enough to believe in 'friendship'
with America. The American goal is to turn India into a Japan for the 21st century. They hope to control the rise of India via manipulation of it's financial markets and then bring it down when they're done.

Paragraph 7. What kissinger is really saying here is that if you try to exclude us from Asia we will raise the issue of minority human rights. :D

Kissingers diplomacy is based on 400 years of colonialism. That period is about to come to an end.


Freeasia,

Obviously you have preconcieved notions of Kissinger ("rabid jewish zionist").
So be it.

I am wondering where you came up with your paragraph 5 statement, namely that the US hopes to "control the rise of India ...."? I think it is over the top, regardless if the US wants to see India as some sort of counterwieght to China in Asia. Besides that, it would be perfectly clear to those in Washington that they cannot "control" India, and I do not believe there is any such intention.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
walter said:
Freeasia,

Obviously you have preconcieved notions of Kissinger ("rabid jewish zionist").
So be it.

I am wondering where you came up with your paragraph 5 statement, namely that the US hopes to "control the rise of India ...."? I think it is over the top, regardless if the US wants to see India as some sort of counterwieght to China in Asia. Besides that, it would be perfectly clear to those in Washington that they cannot "control" India, and I do not believe there is any such intention.

Well a while ago I had a lunch meeting with a Indian businessman and his son who have pretty extensive links with the Indian business community and we had a long discussion about the problems that could be caused for India if its financial markets were not controlled by people who had best regard for India's future...similar to the situation with Japan

Which brings me back to the subject of India. Since 1991, India has been adopting good policies. It is on a path that will continue that process. There seems to be a political consensus to continue the openings, to continue the market reforms, to continue this process of letting larger and larger portions of the economy of India be affected by market forces. At the same time, we sense some reluctance to go faster. We hear often about the need to proceed gradually, carefully, and slowly. I would argue, much as Mr. Singh [President of AmCham India] did, that there is a cost to gradualism. There is a cost to proceeding slowly. And the cost is all the benefits you give up by seeing the economy perform better, on a faster track. One place we see this, in particular, is the area where Treasury has special competence and that is financial markets.

As we met with your business leaders, as we met with your Parliamentarians, as we met with participants in your financial markets -- insurance, pensions, real estate, and banks -- one message kept coming back to us, over and over again, and the message is this: we need infrastructure. Infrastructure is the platform for India's future. But our financing vehicles are not yet appropriate to make possible the capital flows into infrastructure. And we are constraining outside FDI from coming in. And we are limiting the development of our credit markets, our bond markets, our options markets, our derivative markets -- all of the aspects of a well-functioning financial system. I think most of us know that a well-functioning financial system lies right at the heart of a well-functioning economy. A well-functioning financial system is essential to an economy achieving its potential, because a well-functioning financial system energizes the rest of the economy with huge spillover benefits. A well-functioning financial system makes sure that savings get appropriate rates of return and get deployed to the best uses. Well-functioning financial systems have alternative means of disintermediation, not just one. Well-functioning financial systems have means for making capital available in the short-term, the medium-term, and the long-term. Well-functioning financial systems have project financing targeted on infrastructure. In my conversations with the business leaders, and subsequently with the political and economic leaders, I tried to emphasize that point. I think the potential is huge here for India. From freeing up the financial sector, letting the financial sector really do what a well-functioning financial sector can do in aggregating capital, in moving capital from savers to investors, and spreading risks as it does that, the disaggregating risks.


By making available the future's products, derivative products, hedging products, the very things that the financial markets are so competent in doing in which so much benefit the "real" economy, the real sector. Finance facilitates the "real" sector and if you handicap finance you handicap the "real" sector. I think you are on the right path clearly here with these market openings. Telecommunications is a huge success. Telecommunications, I am told now, is leading to something like two million new phones a month. You have got to get used to these numbers in India because they really are staggering, but two million a month with consumers clamoring for those products. There was skepticism when this was first introduced. Many in political life were saying: Well is this really a good idea? Will this lead to the right results? I doubt that many in political life today would want to stand up and go the other way. The market has spoken.

Press Releases 2005
Remarks by U.S. Secretary of Treasury John Snow - "Opportunities for Indo-U.S. Economic Ties" Video

Hosted By FICCI, AmCham and USIBC
Hotel Hyatt Regency
New Delhi, India
November 10, 2005

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I think we've been here before

The British East India Company originally began as a joint-stock company of traders and investors based in Leadenhall Street, in the City of London, which was granted a Royal Charter by Elizabeth I in 1600, with the intent to favour trade privileges in India. The Royal Charter effectively gave the newly created Honourable East India Company a monopoly on all trade with the East Indies. The Company transformed from a commercial trading venture to one which virtually ruled India as it acquired auxiliary governmental and military functions, along with a very large private army consisting of local Indian sepoys, who were loyal to their British commanders and were probably the most important factor in Britain's Asian conquest. The British East India Company is regarded by some as the world's first multinational corporation.

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thus to quote

Dr. Mahander Kumar Saini a professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of New Delhi

we have to have a kind of system, where we can control these transnational corporations. These transnational corporations come to our country, they tell us, "Look, you permit us to operate in your country." Then, they do not come alone. They come with the influence and the ideology of their country. That ideology is also backed by the respective government of their countries, by international institutions, the IMF and World Bank: They are the ones who guide us in which direction we have to develop.

Once we've accepted, they give us conditions. With those conditions, we have to follow a certain path of development, which is not good for us, which is not self-reliant, which is not for the betterment of our people.

and because he understands the dangers in accepting gifts from greeks

Third, in my opinion, they need to strengthen the regional associations. Regional associations must come up in these regions. And it has come, because, trade will increase, self-reliance and collective self-reliance will also increase, if the neighbors can come together and contribute to each other the kinds of things which are required. For example, India and Pakistan come together: Our needs and their needs are similar. But, we are developed. We can give them much more, which they cannot get today, or for which they have to pay a high price. Therefore, regional associations must be strengthened.

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and to REALLY hit the nail on the head..

Today, India's reserves are believed to be in the billions of dollars. From where is the money coming? It is coming from foreign financial institutions. They are investing in India, because the rate of interest in India is higher than the rate of interest in their own country. And the day they decide to take this money back, what will happen? Our economy will come back. Speculation is going on, share prices go up and come down; several times there have been crashes in the share market. So, they can play with countries.

I don't think Indians are as stupid as certain countries think.

Please read the whole post. Thanks !
 

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Aside from the Taiwan issue, I don't forsee the US and China will ever be in a war. Both countries are so interdependent on each other that the gains from conflict does not outweigh the losses.

On the Taiwan issue, if you haven't notice, the US is slowly pushing for a face saving way out of it. Saying things like: "we do not support unilateral moves away from the status quo." Translation: IF Taiwan declares independence and invites a Chinese attack it is on its own. Inversely, attacking Taiwan be the PLA, without provocation, will invite a US response.
 

Troika

Junior Member
Which is why it is in no one's interest to change the status quo. The status quo is excellent to Taiwan (They have little international official recognition, but that usually hurts nothing more than its pride), acceptable to America (it likes to trade with both, and frankly doesn't fancy the idea of a shooting war with China, even if it thinks it can win (I am commenting on American perception, not the military situation), and tolerable to China (likes the trade and investment, hates the constant irritation and possible 'bad example' from Taiwan). Which is why also characterise reaction, whichever one side try to the status quo change too much the other two jumps on it. Of course, the status quo itself is kept ambiguous, although there are certain clearly defined bottomlines (declaring indepdence is one, which is why no sane Taiwanese president will do it), and why attempts to raise the bottomline is met with resistance (anti-secession law, which of itself really isn't much; and pushing of envelop by Taiwanese government).

There is interesting point, that there is such an evolution in mechanics of Sino-Taiwan affairs. It used to be that China wanted unification quick and that 'attempts to indefinitely postpone unifications', stalling, was grounds for forceful intervention. Nowadays, however, both sides basically thinks that time is in its favour, to a degree. China thinks the economic net and her growing power will tip the balance in the long term. Taiwan thinks that de-sinification will only progress with time, and with it any sentiment for re-unification, and that by that time China will be too integrated to risk a war, although Taiwan may have then to live with a status as a semi-vassal of China.

Personally I am thinking that the best case solution for China may be a sort of modus vivendi where there is direct communication; a permenant military alliance between two polities, joint exercises, bases, and the like; and Taiwanese representation in international bodies under some name that does not suggest it is a country (like Hong Kong is doing). Later features may include Taiwanese representatives in the NPC and even later participation of Taiwanese parties in Chinese politics. The time when Taiwan could have been made another province of China is more or less gone in the next century or so.
 

Fairthought

Junior Member
Kissinger's ariticle was far from insightful.

It basically says, if you can't destroy China as a functional entity, you're best strategy is a peaceful road pursuing mutual economic benefits. You don't need a genius to tell you that.

His claim that there are few asian countries willing to ally with America in any cold war against China is simply false. Easily manipulated followers are: Japan, Australia, Taiwan, and South Korea. Even India would be interested. And of course, Western Europe, which is not an asian country but is nonetheless a significant trading block.

The current European military technology sales embargo against China is an example of US followers assisting America in an escalating cold war with China. Its continued existence is due solely to US pressure.

If the article seems rosy and peacenik, it is only because Kissinger is speaking as the head of a consulting company that profits off of investments in China. This is something Kissinger freely admits in his own article, but it bears repeating.

Keeping this self-interest in mind, one understands why Kissinger chose not to discuss the strategy of 'destroying China as a functional entity.' But there are American strategists who are advocating just that agenda. You will see them in the PNAC (Project for the New American Century -see Cheney), and you will find Hawkish Pentagon Pundits, like Robert Kaplan, who have the ear of Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld.

btw, Kissinger is also part of the extremely powerful Carlyle group, the largest private equity firm in the world, that uses ex-presidents (and other illustrious names) to leverage inside deals with world governments for huge profits. In just 14 years, the group has grown to $30 billion for an average 34% nominal return.
 

Mr_C

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Fairthought said:
Kissinger's ariticle was far from insightful.

It basically says, if you can't destroy China as a functional entity, you're best strategy is a peaceful road pursuing mutual economic benefits. You don't need a genius to tell you that.

His claim that there are few asian countries willing to ally with America in any cold war against China is simply false. Easily manipulated followers are: Japan, Australia, Taiwan, and South Korea. Even India would be interested. And of course, Western Europe, which is not an asian country but is nonetheless a significant trading block.

The current European military technology sales embargo against China is an example of US followers assisting America in an escalating cold war with China. Its continued existence is due solely to US pressure.

Hows it going, have not been here for a while. Well my friend no country would be easily manipulated by the USA to fight China. The geopolitical and strategic interest have changed alot in the last 10 yrs and will change more in the next 10yrs.
The Australians have already made it very clear to the USA that they will not help the USA out in a war with CHina. Sth Korea will not go to war against China because they actually feel more closer to the CHinese compared with the USA. Also China is their largest trading partner so Sth Korea cannot afford financially to fight a war against them. Taiwan will not fight China unless attacked coz it is strategically and politically stupid for them to do so, also if Taiwan fights china just because the USA said so.... well there will be massive protest by the taiwanese people coz they r not interested in war. India will not go to war against china because they simply have better things to do, they r more interested to be standing where they r and allow both the Chinese and the USA to try to get them on their side, that way they get more benefits politically and economically. Also if India fights a major war with CHina now or in the near future it will destroy the many yrs of hard work in building up their economy and the improvements of their citizen's lives.
The EU is not interested in fighting a war wiht China also simply because they r europeans and they have much more financial and poltical-strategic interest in co-operation compared to confrontation.

The only country that would have the slightest interest in war with CHina is Japan, but the disadvantages of war far exceeds any benefits to Japan especially for its economic recovery. Japanese leaders r more interested in making politically noise by playing the CHina threat to get what they want at home, but they r far from willing to fight in a war.

did i say too much?
 
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