Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Incorrect assessment by both you and solarz.

1. ACARS are preprogrammed to transmit every 30 minutes. The last verbal comm happened just a few minutes AFTER the last ACARS transmission (but before the next 30 minutes mark) so it would be impossible to determine factually if it was 'switched' off before or after the verbal comm.

2. ACARS can be swithced off HOWEVER it still pings (and that's how they determined the southern and northern arc by INMARSAT from ACARS ping).... not too different than cell phones. Even if you don't 'use' the phone it still pings cell towers. The only way to truly disable the cell phone from picking up is to either wrap it in tinfoil or to take out the power source (battery). To totally disable ACARS would be the same. You have to severe the power source of cut off the datalink altogether which fortunately in this case was not down. If the 'perp' has totally destroy the ACARS (as oppose to just turning it off) then they would NEVER EVER know where the heck it went (again assuming current search knowledge is true).
dxj2uTM.jpg

One of my favorite lines from the movie, PING!,,,,, even though I am the AFB, and I hate the thought of drowning, I do love submarines, I would like to have a phone ringer with the ping,,,,,ping,,,,ping,,,ping,,ping,ping of the incoming torpedo pings. Probably one of the most interesting movies I have ever watched.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

By all means, search the last known location, but don't *just* do that. The possibility of hijacking or deliberate course diversion was not brought up until days later. If the possibility was brought up earlier, perhaps the Inmarsat would have been made relevant earlier.

They were considering all possibilities including hijacking right from day one. The possibility of a turn back, due to hijacking or whatever the reason, to the west coast was considered. That is why they started to search the sea to the west of the peninsula. The Inmarsat data is relevant by itself alone and as I commented earlier the game changing information. The only question is why it wasn't made available earlier.
 
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broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Missing Malaysia Airlines jet: Why didn't passengers make mobile phone calls?


March 18, 2014

A member of Indonesia's National Search and Rescue looks for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 in the Andaman Sea area around the northern tip of Indonesia's Sumatra island .

A member of Indonesia's National Search and Rescue looks for missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 in the Andaman Sea area around the northern tip of Indonesia's Sumatra island . Photo: AFP

Malaysia backtracks on when airliner's communications were cut

Sepang, Malaysia: When hijackers took control of four airplanes on September 11, 2001, and sent them hurtling low across the countryside towards New York and Washington, frantic passengers and flight attendants turned on their mobile phones and began making calls to loved ones, airline managers and the authorities.

But when Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 did a wide U-turn in the middle of the night over the Gulf of Thailand and then spent nearly half an hour swooping over two large Malaysian cities and various towns and villages, there was apparently silence. As far as investigators have been able to determine, there have been no phone calls, Twitter or Weibo postings, Instagram photos or any other communication from anyone aboard the aircraft since it was diverted.

There has been no evidence ''of any number they're trying to contact, but anyway they are still checking and there are millions of records for them to process'', Ahmad Jauhari Yahya, chief executive of Malaysia Airlines, said at a news conference on Monday.
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The apparent absence of any word from the aircraft in an era of nearly ubiquitous mobile communications has prompted considerable debate among pilots, telecommunications specialists and others. Most of the people aboard the plane were from Malaysia or China, two countries where mobile phone use is extremely prevalent, especially among affluent citizens who take international flights.

Some theorise the silence signifies that the plane was flying too high for personal electronic devices to be used. Others wonder whether people aboard the flight even tried to make calls or send messages.

According to military radar, the aircraft was flying extremely high shortly after its turn – as much as 45,000 feet (13,716 metres), above the certified maximum altitude of 43,100 feet (13,136 metres) for the Boeing 777-200. It then descended as it crossed Peninsular Malaysia, flying as low as 23,000 feet (7010 metres) before moving up to 29,500 feet (8991 metres) and cruising there.

Vincent Lau, an electronics professor specialising in wireless communications at Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, said the altitude might have prevented passengers' mobile phones from connecting to base stations on the ground, even if the phones were turned on during the flight or had been left on since departure.

The hijacked planes on September 11 were flying very low towards urban targets when passengers and flight attendants made calls from those aircraft, he said.

Base station signals spread out considerably over distance. So mobile phones in a plane a few kilometres up, like Flight 370, would receive little if any signal, he said.

Base station design has improved since the September 11 attacks to provide better, more focused coverage of specific areas on the ground. But that also means somewhat less signal intensity is wasted in directions where callers are unlikely to be located, such as directly overhead, Mr Lau added.

Lam Wong-hing, a wireless communications specialist at the University of Hong Kong, said mobile phones transmit at 1 watt or less, while base stations typically transmit at 20 watts and sometimes much more. So even if a mobile phone showed that it was receiving a signal while aloft, it might not be able to transmit a signal that was strong enough to make a connection, he said.

The metal in an aircraft reduces mobile phone signals somewhat. If a passenger had pressed a mobile phone against a plastic window with a line of sight to a phone tower it is possible a connection might have been made even at a fairly high altitude, because plastic barely blocks a mobile phone signal at all, Mr Lam said.

Many aircraft carry satellite phones, and the Malaysia Airlines jet was equipped with them in business class. The plane continued to send satellite pings for nearly seven hours after it was apparently diverted.

But the satellite phones are part of an aircraft's in-flight entertainment system. If someone deliberately diverted a plane and turned off its transponder and other communications equipment, that person is likely to have disabled the in-flight entertainment system so passengers could not figure out from the map that they were flying in the wrong direction, said a telecommunications expert who insisted on anonymity because he was not authorised to talk to the media. If the entertainment system was turned off, the satellite phones also would not work, the expert said.

Chinese media have reported that there have been some instances of people calling mobile phones of passengers of the missing flight and hearing ring tones, sometimes days after the plane disappeared. Telecom experts have dismissed that as evidence that the mobile phones are still in use, saying that a ring tone may be heard while the international phone system is searching for a phone and trying to connect a call.

There have been no reports of anyone answering calls to the mobile phones of passengers or flight attendants aboard the plane.

Investigators do not know if anyone aboard the plane even tried to make a call. One theory is that someone may have intentionally depressurised the plane as it soared to an unusually high altitude right after the turnaround, which would have quickly rendered passengers and flight attendants unconscious, pilots said. Whoever diverted the plane could have disabled the release of oxygen masks.

Dr James Ho, an associate professor of medicine at Hong Kong University, said death could come within minutes if someone were the equivalent of outdoors at 13,716 metres metres. But without information on the speed of depressurisation, it is hard to predict the medical consequences, he said.

A table used by pilots for ''time of useful consciousness'' without an oxygen supplement at various altitudes shows only nine to 15 seconds at 13,716 metres, compared with five to 10 minutes at 6705 metres.

Mobile phone service is widely available in sizable areas of western China and eastern Kazakhstan, raising the question of why nobody from the plane has tried to make a call if it did fly north and land safely, instead of flying out into the Indian Ocean until it ran out of fuel.

If the flight did land safely somewhere with the passengers and flight crew still healthy, whoever was in charge of the aircraft would also face a formidable task in any attempt to provide food, water and shelter for more than 200 people.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Sometimes humanity is just embarrassing. I guess that comes with the only fact that is for certain is there's a missing aircraft. Everything else out there is rooted denial or wishful thinking. I especially like the theory now that the 777 was the objective and now is being prepped for a terrorist attack. Yeah like no one would be alerted after no one can find an airliner that's gone missing with a lot of passengers on board. I guess it's not targeted against China because the flight already had enough fuel to slam into any of China's skyscrapers in any of the top tier cities.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

So do we know if the ACARS was just turned off or completely disabled? If the ACARS has been pinging all this time, wouldn't they have had knowledge of the plane's course from day one?

No because ping doesn't transmit data. Actual data is transmitted via the acars data link but sine it was disable no data whatsoever... It's more like a handshake saying hey im still here in case we need to talk....the pings were picked up by a geosynchronous sat that's why the search area is so incredibly vast. Also its not a continuous ping but more like 1ping every 60 minutes or some lenghty interval. For all we know the last ping could have been from the ground which is best case because there's a chance people are still alive then.

Best way to describe is back to my cellphone example. If the phone is off but was still pinging the cell tower the only way to know location is by knowing that particular cell tower's range. Say if at best it can receive signals from 50 miles away then you know the phone is inside 50 mile radius from the tower or 160 sq miles now multiply that by the sat which is hundreds of thousands of feet up and an object that has a max v of almost mach 1 and you'll understand why searching for that darn plane is so Monumentally difficult.

Hope my analogy makes sense.:D
 
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getready

Senior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Sometimes humanity is just embarrassing. I guess that comes with the only fact that is for certain is there's a missing aircraft. Everything else out there is rooted denial or wishful thinking. I especially like the theory now that the 777 was the objective and now is being prepped for a terrorist attack. Yeah like no one would be alerted after no one can find an airliner that's gone missing with a lot of passengers on board. I guess it's not targeted against China because the flight already had enough fuel to slam into any of China's skyscrapers in any of the top tier cities.

We can always ask the Malaysian bomoh to give us his valuable insights:)

The problem from the start was the country in charge has been found out to be incapable of leading this operation. Wasting valuable time and resources to search in the wrong location. Coupled with confusing misinformation, media speculation, stuff ups, lack of information and professionalism. The plane will be at ahe bottom of the Indian ocean by now. I doubt the bodies will be recovered. In the air France case, over 70 passengers are still lying in the bottom of the ocean. RIP
 

Maggern

Junior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

I'm sorry if this has been answered before but...

THey're now entertaining the idea that the plane has gone down within Chinese territory. When I first read about the northern corridor, I waved it off as unlikely, simply because I doubted such a large and unidentified aircraft could breach a sensitive border area and fly across Chinese territory without the PLA having any idea it was there. Surely Chinese radar coverage in the western regions is sufficient to pick up such an aircraft. Also considering the topography of the western areas, it's unlikely the plane would stick below radar coverage (as they suspect it was doing around the Malay Peninsulaa).

Unless it crashed in some godforsaken part of the Himalayas...is it possible?
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

We can rule out landing/crashing on the Asian continent despite what the media say. Radars would have picked it out.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

We can always ask the Malaysian bomoh to give us his valuable insights:)

The problem from the start was the country in charge has been found out to be incapable of leading this operation. Wasting valuable time and resources to search in the wrong location. Coupled with confusing misinformation, media speculation, stuff ups, lack of information and professionalism. The plane will be at ahe bottom of the Indian ocean by now. I doubt the bodies will be recovered. In the air France case, over 70 passengers are still lying in the bottom of the ocean. RIP

The reaction from the Malaysians is not surprising. I'm sure they're acting out of embarrassment and denial more than conspiracy. Most likely many countries would react the same in the their own way. Even look at Obama embarrassed by Snowden did not react in a respectable way.

I'm sorry if this has been answered before but...

THey're now entertaining the idea that the plane has gone down within Chinese territory. When I first read about the northern corridor, I waved it off as unlikely, simply because I doubted such a large and unidentified aircraft could breach a sensitive border area and fly across Chinese territory without the PLA having any idea it was there. Surely Chinese radar coverage in the western regions is sufficient to pick up such an aircraft. Also considering the topography of the western areas, it's unlikely the plane would stick below radar coverage (as they suspect it was doing around the Malay Peninsulaa).

Unless it crashed in some godforsaken part of the Himalayas...is it possible?

The media doesn't even understand their own maps they put up. What they call corridors are not flight paths like they're suggesting. If that were the case, why is the US Navy searching over the Indian Ocean and not over the countries the northern corridor goes over?
 
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