China's SCS Strategy Thread

chuck731 said:

When a country of 1.3 billion confronts poorer countries of less than 100 million, people cut the smaller country much more slack than needed to overlook these infractions.

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John kerry is in Beijing right now asking china to put the screws on an isolated and impoverished country of 20 million, NKorea. to wack it with more sanctions.

If the size of the country some how justifies the legitimacy of their action, then why should any one in the world sympathize with the world's only hyper-power and gang-up on the isolated and impoverished country of 20 million size of Pennsylvania.????

chuck731 said:

No, People around the world cut Iraq a lot more slack then the US as well. But the US started from a position of vast superiority in stored reserve of good will. The extra slack Iraq received was insufficient to make up for the disadvantage in time to make any difference for Iraq.

In case of South China sea conflict, not only would the world cut Phillipine and Vietnam more slack, but they start from positon of superiority in stored reserve of good will as well. China will not win the publicity game in this conflict.

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Clearly they won't win the publicity game.

Anyone with half a brain knows why perception of this issue is like it currently is, and it isn't because of proper portrayal of the events and each nation's claims.

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You're basically saying china has bad publicity/public relations/media news outlets, allowing others to twist the narrative in their own direction. On SDF that' is just preaching to the choir.

chuck731 said:

Except to all the rest of the world, while Vietnam and Phillipines are not yet seen as anything like modern day Leonidas in this conflict, China is seen as being pretty close to modern day Xerxes.

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China isn't an expansionist power, so your Xerxes analogy doesn't fit.

i.e. said:

John kerry is in Beijing right now asking china to put the screws on an isolated and impoverished country of 20 million, NKorea. to wack it with more sanctions.

If the size of the country some how justifies the legitimacy of their action, then why should any one in the world sympathize with the world's only hyper-power and gang-up on the isolated and impoverished country of 20 million size of Pennsylvania.????

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Don't you mean Secretary Kerry is in Beijing to consult with the other global great power to keep a lid on DPRK's malignant narcissist leaders with delusions of godhood and demonstrable tendency to indulge in nuclear terrorism? US and China are on the same page with regards to North Korea, and thank God for that!

Bltizo said:

Clearly they won't win the publicity game.

Anyone with half a brain knows why perception of this issue is like it currently is, and it isn't because of proper portrayal of the events and each nation's claims.

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You're basically saying china has bad publicity/public relations/media news outlets, allowing others to twist the narrative in their own direction. On SDF that' is just preaching to the choir.

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That's only the case if you restrict the audience to western-aligned nations. In many other parts of the world, China is perceived much better.

chuck731 said:

No, People around the world cut Iraq a lot more slack then the US as well. But the US started from a position of vast superiority in stored reserve of good will. The extra slack Iraq received was insufficient to make up for the disadvantage in time to make any difference for Iraq.

In case of South China sea conflict, not only would the world cut Phillipine and Vietnam more slack, but they start from positon of superiority in stored reserve of good will as well. China will not win the publicity game in this conflict.

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China will not win the publicity game no matter how you slice and dice it. Since China gets criticized no matter what, the logic approach for China to take is to ignore the publicity game and enact more unilateral policies.

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

i.e. said:

and they have to transit through EEZ to get to Hong kong isn't it?

and will the entire battle group dock there or just some of the surface fleet.

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It doesn't matter how many US AC and ships dock in Hong Kong, since they could only do so with the good graces of the HK (read Beijing) government. However, China only has a say on innocent passage within 12 miles of the Chinese coast, and not the rest of the EEZ.

if in your esteemed opinion, a transit rights equals the right of dragging a huge sonar array behind yourself and loitering around the other guys sub base, then if you gets harassed along the way, it is pretty much expected. and if you cry about it and further more, base your crying on the absoluteness of transit rights, then you are pretty much exploiting the transit rights at expense of other user of this space. it is depleting the good will of international law for its own petty, transitory, and insignificant geopolitical advantage.

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Frankly Scarlet, US and any other nation's ships could roam all they like in anyone's EEZ, because it's international waters. That means PLAN could roam up and down the California coast all day, all night, and on holidays if it likes, and the US wouldn't object, because it's China's right to freely navigate international waters.

Blackstone said:

Kindly address these two questions-
1) Can you link relevant government statements to that effect?
2) Why is China's definition of freedom of navigation different from the rest of the world?

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These are fallacy known as begging the question. First, the burden of proof is on you to find government statements to show Nine Dash line represents a claim on a body of water. Second, China's definition of freedom of navigation is not different from the rest of the world. Rather, it is US's view that is different since US does not abide itself to UNCLOS.

Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Blackstone said:

It doesn't matter how many US AC and ships dock in Hong Kong, since they could only do so with the good graces of the HK (read Beijing) government. However, China only has a say on innocent passage within 12 miles of the Chinese coast, and not the rest of the EEZ.

Frankly Scarlet, US and any other nation's ships could roam all they like in anyone's EEZ, because it's international waters. That means PLAN could roam up and down the California coast all day, all night, and on holidays if it likes, and the US wouldn't object, because it's China's right to freely navigate international waters.

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The key word here is innocent passage. Spying and other military activities are not innocent passage.

Engineer said:

China will not win the publicity game no matter how you slice and dice it. Since China gets criticized no matter what, the logic approach for China to take is to ignore the publicity game and enact more unilateral policies.

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Agreed on Western Press' hostility against China (it will get worse and not better), and also understand reasons for China to forge unilateral policies against rules imposed by Western and Colonial powers. However, if China chooses to do so, then it also must be willing to suffer the consequences of its neighbors crying rape and begging the US for help. One begets the other.