Z-20 (all variants) thread

One problem with NH-90 is that its sidedoors are too small. When a door gun is mounted on the NH-90, troops cannot exit quickly enough.

Blackhawk uses a door set specifically for the gunners and from the looks of the photo I am guessing Z20 keeps that feature.

Equation said:

LOL...so that an enemy RPG can just pass through without hitting the Blackhawk (inside joke)!

Now on a more serious note. The side doors is mostly open usually during air patrol so that the gunman can spot any strange activities on the ground, also because it makes extraction easier for either rappelling troops down rope or even carrying out the wounded when the Blackhawk do a medical evac. Remember its a utility helicopter with combat capability for support, therefore it's a busy chopper. They do closed the side doors depending on the situation and need.

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Thanks for the explanation! Yea it's so wide open that LOL I won't be surprised if that can actually happen. I also actually think the US doctrine and training of helo ops and their ops are simply amazing.
And for personal note, of all the utility helos, I like the Black Hawk, and the Chinook the most, especially the Black Hawk the most. Not only because of its look, but also its versatility. They're deployed for pretty much everything, they're like the Super Hercules of the US inventory of helos. Mi-17 is a good horse, but its landing gear looks like either piranhas had their day at them, or some terrible atrophy happened.

airsuperiority said:

Thanks for the explanation! Yea it's so wide open that LOL I won't be surprised if that can actually happen. I also actually think the US doctrine and training of helo ops and their ops are simply amazing.
And for personal note, of all the utility helos, I like the Black Hawk, and the Chinook the most, especially the Black Hawk the most. Not only because of its look, but also its versatility. They're deployed for pretty much everything, they're like the Super Hercules of the US inventory of helos. Mi-17 is a good horse, but its landing gear looks like either piranhas had their day at them, or some terrible atrophy happened.

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You're right about that on the US ops on helicopters and such, not just in the Army but Navy and Marines as well. I too like the Blackhawk the best, even better than the Chinook. I'm telling ya man, once China gets more use to this new Z-20, they will love it! It's just so durable, rugged, with all kinds of use utility helicopter. Although the Chinook is huge and spacious inside it's just not as fun, it's also pretty loud in the inside, I remember having to put on ear plugs.

Just for the record I have been on Hueys and also Seahawks but never been on a blackhawk. As to falling out there are seatbelts or harness with carabiners where you clip into your vest etc so if the chopper banks or turn you don't fall out!.

kwaigonegin said:

Just for the record I have been on Hueys and also Seahawks but never been on a blackhawk. As to falling out there are seatbelts or harness with carabiners where you clip into your vest etc so if the chopper banks or turn you don't fall out!.

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Thanks! I suppose the Seahawks and the Black Hawks shouldn't be too different in terms of that they are after all the same breed, aren't they?

Equation said:

You're right about that on the US ops on helicopters and such, not just in the Army but Navy and Marines as well. I too like the Blackhawk the best, even better than the Chinook. I'm telling ya man, once China gets more use to this new Z-20, they will love it! It's just so durable, rugged, with all kinds of use utility helicopter. Although the Chinook is huge and spacious inside it's just not as fun, it's also pretty loud in the inside, I remember having to put on ear plugs.

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Agreed and agreed. In terms of rapid deployment, I really doubt there's any military force in this world that have the same level of competency as advanced as the US when it comes to helo ops. In fact, I think how the US conduct helo ops is definitely something for other countries to learn from. (hence all the cross-training). China, in particular, have so much they can learn from the US for these reasons(if anyone recalled me making a mention of how I think what China needs the most will be training at the Gordan Chang thread, this is what I mean), because China have such vast physical land mass and various terrains, many of which very rugged. The valleys and mountainous areas to the west, the Plateaus, the Gobi desert, the rivers..even the soil alone..the PLA can easily use some decades to get very familiar with their own terrain inside out. How ops are conducted for each of these terrains are already different enough with gears and deployment, not to mention natures of ops, from CSAR to natural disasters to CAS. Luckily, the Z-20 had now just come out, and having the appropriate hardware is the right step towards more advanced training. Just like how the Liaoning came out and the Chinese training adopted American carrier ops, I think we should be seeing PLA textbooks being revised very soon.

And there are so many voices out there saying China copied the Black Hawk. Honestly, I couldn't care less, because the Black Hawk is so good, it's not a surprise if people build their own versions of this. In fact, I'm glad to see the Z-20 looking so good. If the same ruggedness as the Black Hawk are found in this Chinese engineering, I'm quite sure we will see some evolutionary changes within the entire PLA. Maybe the Z-20 will find its way into PLA's equivalent of the Nightstalkers?

shen said:

One problem with NH-90 is that its sidedoors are too small. When a door gun is mounted on the NH-90, troops cannot exit quickly enough.

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Are you sure ?

Nh-90 Has a dedicated spot for machine gun:


Plus a large ramp at the back:

navyreco said:

Are you sure ?

Nh-90 Has a dedicated spot for machine gun:

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The window gun mounts were a feature in mockups and prototypes. Production helicopters, at least in Greece, Germany, Italy and the Netherlands, use door mounted guns.

Here's another pic for the gun door.




They can also mount a gun on the main side doors as well.

navyreco said:

Are you sure ?

Nh-90 Has a dedicated spot for machine gun:

Plus a large ramp at the back:

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That's one of the problem reported in the German media. Plus other problems


Australian also reported similar problems.

Looking at the picture, the window gun position seems to obstruct the ramp, so the choice is do you want to obstruct the door or the ramp?