China Flanker Thread II

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SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
超大资讯证实歼11D预计在2014年首飞,属于空军立项的短平快项目。

pupu日落说过11D项目早就存在,因为11B、BS出现的问题,11D曾经被束之高阁。目前重启11D 项目,明年首飞,进度很快。同为三代半重型空优战斗机,大面积引进苏35的说法和快速研制11D的项目,必 然有所冲突。兔子未来三代半重型空优战斗机的布局有点扑朔迷离。

1. 歼11D与歼20、粽子、10B、16无论在时间上和定位上都无冲突,从11D牵扯其他国产战斗机的讨论没 有必要。不要扯功能重复,因为三代半重型空优战斗机对兔子不可或缺;也不要扯服役时间晚,因为到2020年 ,兔子都还有大量二代机和三代退役机需要替换。笔者认为,歼11D研制成功与否和实际战斗力,按道理只和引 进苏35的时间和数量有关系。

笔者认为兔子在2015年引进一到两个团的苏35应急,如果研制顺利,到2018年后空军换装歼11D形成 三代半重型空优大机群。如果11D研制不顺利或者性能不达标,继续引进苏35作为主战装备,11D可能被压 缩甚至砍掉。(航电升级版11B,进度应该可以保证了,但是对苏35的替代性弱了,如果苏35好买,偶估计 空军还是希望引进一定数量苏35的)

2. 空军立项研制11D,并且进度飞快,如果不是为了谈判苏35虚晃一枪(可能性不大),那至少说明空军对60 1和沈飞有信心,他们可能通过11B的问题和15、16的研制,已经基本完全攻克27系的结构和气动问题, 对改进航电、材料甚至隐身结构有信心。这个是长期困扰CDER的裤衩问题。(超大更新主帖,11D是11B 的航电飞控升级版,没有气动和结构的改进,这样看11D研制服役难度不大,601和SF的研发能力也没有面 临新的大幅度挑战)

3. 11D形成高性能最大的障碍还是来自于发动机。由于众所周知的原因,11D用毛发的可能性极低。最大的可能 性选择是太行B,然而太行今年好像在某新型飞机试飞过程中又出现双发停车的问题。不过幸好11D的定型应该 还有几年时间,这给动力成熟提供了一定的时间窗口。不管这么说,发动机将会是11D形成高性能的要素中最大 的拦路虎。

4. 歼11D的研制,无论如何对空军引进苏35的谈判应该有很大帮助。pupu爆料说苏35谈判非常艰苦。(上 航电升级版11B,也许说明购买苏35的难度比预想中的更大)

5. 歼11D的定位应该是美帝研制的沉默鹰,三代半加局部隐身设计。与苏35相比,应该隐身性能和BVR能力更 强,由于发动机原因,机动性和近距格斗能力更弱。(超大主帖改变,11D只是11B的航电飞控升级版,看来 11D和苏35还有不小的差距啊!)

6. 兔子未来的空军配置方式越来越接近于美帝

四代重型空优战斗机:歼20vsF22
四代中重型多功能战斗机:粽子改vs肥电

三代半重型空优战斗机:歼11D/苏35vsF15C改进型
三代半中型空优战斗机:歼10BvsF16改进型

三代+多用途战斗机:歼16vsF15E;歼10CvsF16C/D
现役三代战斗机:苏27sk、歼11A、歼11B、歼11BS、歼10A/AS。

盼星星盼月亮,等待2020年,空军三代四代全系列战斗机格局形成的那一天。。。
 
K

kyuryu

Junior Member
SinoSoldier said:
超大资讯证实歼11D预计在2014年首飞,属于空军立项的短平快项目。

pupu日落说过11D项目早就存在,因为11B、BS出现的问题,11D曾经被束之高阁。目前重启11D 项目,明年首飞,进度很快。同为三代半重型空优战斗机,大面积引进苏35的说法和快速研制11D的项目,必 然有所冲突。兔子未来三代半重型空优战斗机的布局有点扑朔迷离。

1. 歼11D与歼20、粽子、10B、16无论在时间上和定位上都无冲突,从11D牵扯其他国产战斗机的讨论没 有必要。不要扯功能重复,因为三代半重型空优战斗机对兔子不可或缺;也不要扯服役时间晚,因为到2020年 ,兔子都还有大量二代机和三代退役机需要替换。笔者认为,歼11D研制成功与否和实际战斗力,按道理只和引 进苏35的时间和数量有关系。

笔者认为兔子在2015年引进一到两个团的苏35应急,如果研制顺利,到2018年后空军换装歼11D形成 三代半重型空优大机群。如果11D研制不顺利或者性能不达标,继续引进苏35作为主战装备,11D可能被压 缩甚至砍掉。(航电升级版11B,进度应该可以保证了,但是对苏35的替代性弱了,如果苏35好买,偶估计 空军还是希望引进一定数量苏35的)

2. 空军立项研制11D,并且进度飞快,如果不是为了谈判苏35虚晃一枪(可能性不大),那至少说明空军对60 1和沈飞有信心,他们可能通过11B的问题和15、16的研制,已经基本完全攻克27系的结构和气动问题, 对改进航电、材料甚至隐身结构有信心。这个是长期困扰CDER的裤衩问题。(超大更新主帖,11D是11B 的航电飞控升级版,没有气动和结构的改进,这样看11D研制服役难度不大,601和SF的研发能力也没有面 临新的大幅度挑战)

3. 11D形成高性能最大的障碍还是来自于发动机。由于众所周知的原因,11D用毛发的可能性极低。最大的可能 性选择是太行B,然而太行今年好像在某新型飞机试飞过程中又出现双发停车的问题。不过幸好11D的定型应该 还有几年时间,这给动力成熟提供了一定的时间窗口。不管这么说,发动机将会是11D形成高性能的要素中最大 的拦路虎。

4. 歼11D的研制,无论如何对空军引进苏35的谈判应该有很大帮助。pupu爆料说苏35谈判非常艰苦。(上 航电升级版11B,也许说明购买苏35的难度比预想中的更大)

5. 歼11D的定位应该是美帝研制的沉默鹰,三代半加局部隐身设计。与苏35相比,应该隐身性能和BVR能力更 强,由于发动机原因,机动性和近距格斗能力更弱。(超大主帖改变,11D只是11B的航电飞控升级版,看来 11D和苏35还有不小的差距啊!)

6. 兔子未来的空军配置方式越来越接近于美帝

四代重型空优战斗机:歼20vsF22
四代中重型多功能战斗机:粽子改vs肥电

三代半重型空优战斗机:歼11D/苏35vsF15C改进型
三代半中型空优战斗机:歼10BvsF16改进型

三代+多用途战斗机:歼16vsF15E;歼10CvsF16C/D
现役三代战斗机:苏27sk、歼11A、歼11B、歼11BS、歼10A/AS。

盼星星盼月亮,等待2020年,空军三代四代全系列战斗机格局形成的那一天。。。
Click to expand...

As a non-Chinese speaker, is there any chance someone can provide the highlights in English?

Cheers in advance,

Kyuryu
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
¦^��: Re: China Flanker Thread II

kyuryu said:
As a non-Chinese speaker, is there any chance someone can provide the highlights in English?

Cheers in advance,

Kyuryu
Click to expand...

Basically:

- J-11D is a moderately stealthy Flanker

- First flight in 2014

- Induction takes three years

- Stealth and BVR expected to be superior to Su-35, but kinematics is inferior

- Su-35 deal is in question since J-11B is getting avionics upgrades

At the end however, he seemed to have gone backwards and said that "J-11D is simply the J-11B with minor upgrades".
 
H

hardware

Banned Idiot
one area rarely mention was PLAAF electronic warfare system.particular fighter EW.around 2004, US claim that PLAAF is developing Digital RF memory or DRFM for future airborne jamming system. also PLAAF fighter also fitted with standard chaff and flares.but to date there's no mention other EW tools such tow "smart" decoy,DIRCM and radar cancellation system.
or escort jammer similiar to EA-6 or EA-18G.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
¦^��: Re: ¦^��: Re: China Flanker Thread II

Centrist said:
IMHO, J-11D is not a striker and is not the J-18. J-11D is just going to be a 4.5 Gen upgrade to the J-11B

Huitong mentioned that he thought the J-11C was the J-15...but I think that is nonsensical (then where do you place the J-16?)

J-11C was a Shenyang concept for a J-11B upgrade, then (as some articles are saying) the project was cancelled. It seems that the project was revisited recently, but the original design was modified as the J-11D. IMHO, we will never see the J-11C, it's an abandoned project.

Perhaps the J-11C was a Pak-Fa style aircraft that was rejected by the PLAAF due to cost. Instead, Shenyang presented them with the Su-35ish J-11D design as a cheaper alternative to replace aging aircraft.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the J-15 and J-16 were separate altogether since "C" is not a lucky letter in Chinese superstitions. However there is a pretty likely chance that the J-11D will not feature full on stealth like the T-50 but rather partial like the F-15SE.
 
L

Lion

Senior Member
Re: ¦^��: Re: ¦^��: Re: China Flanker Thread II

SinoSoldier said:
Perhaps the J-15 and J-16 were separate altogether since "C" is not a lucky letter in Chinese superstitions. However there is a pretty likely chance that the J-11D will not feature full on stealth like the T-50 but rather partial like the F-15SE.
Click to expand...

I thought D is the unlucky word in Chinese.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Re: ¦^��: Re: ¦^��: Re: China Flanker Thread II

SinoSoldier said:
Perhaps the J-15 and J-16 were separate altogether since "C" is not a lucky letter in Chinese superstitions. However there is a pretty likely chance that the J-11D will not feature full on stealth like the T-50 but rather partial like the F-15SE.
Click to expand...

Actually the Pak/Fa/T-50 doesn't feature full on stealth either, but has gone for supermaneuverability as the A card, it is marginally L/O, but not stealthy in the same sense as the F-22 or F-35, no one has any real numbers but that's their story,as for the J-20, I would assume it is in the same league as the F-35???
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
¦^��: Re: ¦^��: Re: ¦^��: Re: China Flanker Thread II

Air Force Brat said:
Actually the Pak/Fa/T-50 doesn't feature full on stealth either, but has gone for supermaneuverability as the A card, it is marginally L/O, but not stealthy in the same sense as the F-22 or F-35, no one has any real numbers but that's their story,as for the J-20, I would assume it is in the same league as the F-35???
Click to expand...

PAK FA is still pretty stealthy compared to 4.5 generation contemporaries like the Silent Eagle. The J-20 probably has a cleaner profile than the F-35, although the actual RCS also depends on stuff like the RAM and other stuff; everyone agrees that the F-22 is the king of stealth.
 
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