Chinese Aviation Industry

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Yeah I mean it doesnt end there, China has plans for C929 and C939 and also CS series the China Star 2000 aircraft models

They wiill slowly slowly get there I guess by starting with ARJ-21 and C919, it's tough game this civil aviation business never been easy, the hard work will pay off later
 

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Russia and China plan to collaborate on developing a wide-body long-haul passenger

HARBIN, August 20 (RIA Novosti) – Russia and China plan to collaborate on developing a wide-body long-haul passenger airliner, Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said Tuesday.

The project is only financially viable as a collaboration, as Airbus and Boeing already account for 80 percent of Russia’s long-range passenger aircraft market, Rogozin said.

He offered no indication of the project’s current status, only saying that Russian aircraft design bureau chiefs were due to meet soon to discuss it.

The future airliner must not be a “blind copy of Airbus and Boeing,” Rogozin said.

Russia and China could also start developing and manufacturing a new heavy-lift helicopter with capacity double that of the Mi-26, the deputy prime minister said.

The Mi-26 is the world’s largest and most powerful helicopter, with a payload of up to 20 tons.




He dismissed the opinion of skeptics who say there will be no demand for such a helicopter, adding that Chinese specialists were ready for consultations on a joint helicopter project.

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Skywatcher

Captain
Re: Russia and China plan to collaborate on developing a wide-body long-haul passenge

So we have official confirmation of that "Il-96 update" rumor from last year, it seems.

Though I wonder what the rationale is for building a 40 ton payload helicopter?
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Russia and China plan to collaborate on developing a wide-body long-haul passenge

Although A possibility this is not Confermation yet of a new Il96.

Now Choppers. For number of Years here in the US their has been interest in a ultra heavy lifter. The Current US army requirement of the JMR Ultra calls for a 36 ton lifter with speed better then 170 Kts is a prime example. the mission roles envisioned are as a possible replacement of the C130 in some roles. moving light armored vehicles around hard to reach areas.
Remember the MI26 moves light armor like the BTR-60/70/80 series, but the last of that family the BTR 90 came in at a full 20.5 long tons. which is more then the Mi26 can lift.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: Russia and China plan to collaborate on developing a wide-body long-haul passenge

So we have official confirmation of that "Il-96 update" rumor from last year, it seems.

Though I wonder what the rationale is for building a 40 ton payload helicopter?
The Mil V-12 of 1968 already had a max. payload of 40 tons, normal payload 20 tons.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
But only two Mi V12 were ever built and then they were scrapped.
the mission role for the v12 was moving icbms to remote launch silos. It would also likely be offered as a mi26 replacement and used for transport of BTR series vehicles and paratroopers. Finally. Air Crain and remote logistics roles.
 
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rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
Alright, my mind is spinning from all the new alleged aircraft in development. Let's take a look at the rumors and try to get them straight. I am basing my list off of what Huitong has posted over the years...

Light Fighters
JF-17
JF-17B
JF-17X (semi stealth variant)

Medium Fighters
J-10A
J-10B (enter production or not?)
J-10C (further improved?)
J-10X (carrier variant)

Medium-Heavy Fighters

J-11B
J-11C (Huitong says this is also the J-15)
J-11D (Huitong says will be heavily upgraded)

J-15 (Carrier-based fighter)
J-21 (Cancelled?????)

J-20
J-20X (carrier-based variant)


Strike Fighters

JH-7A
JH-7B
J-16
J-18

As you can see, we have got a mess on our hands. I think a lot of these projects don't exist. If they do exist, then China is wasting an awful lot of money.

Why start building the J-10B when the J-10C is about the fly?
Why does Huitiong say the J-11C is the J-15 and J-11D is this new Pak-fa-like fighter....what happened to the J-16?
Why would Shengyang invest in the J-21 if it also working on redundant projects?
Why is the JH-B needed when the J-16 is almost ready to go and far exceeds the JH-B's capability? Why would Shenyang be investing in the J-18 as well? Does China need THREE strike fighter projects going at the same time?

If anyone can answer the above questions, that would be great.

My guess was,

J-10C was designed for carrier borne fighter, and I believe J-10B is not, so no conflict there. Secondly, J-10C might came in direct competition with SAC J-15, afterall we have been seeing quite a bit of delay in the J-15 project, the big shrimp might wanted another project as a safe measure, or it would be like the Mig-29K and Su-33 of Russia, both from different company, but served the same goal of becoming the aircraft carrier borne fighters, or they can both serve onboard of the aircraft carrier making Hi-Lo configuration.

J-15 might have started off as J-11C (which actually make sense), it is just a naming convention. J-11D might be an upgrade for J-11B and it might even be J-16 project in the first place (??)

When SAC invested in the building of J-21, there are rumors that they are targeting carrier borne fighters. Since PLAN already selected J-15 (which is also an SAC project) as the carrier fighter, it make sense that SAC came up with a stealth aircraft that could also be use on the aircraft carrier. At that time, no one know who will ultimately get the stealth aircraft carrier borne fighter.

J-16 is an SAC fighter, JH-B is an Xian fighter. Different company. It is what we call competition.

Is J-18 actually out of the drawing board yet? Might not even came off of the drawing board... might even be killed halfway. It is normal for a company to come up with different designs and proposal, so that when one design was killed, others might still take off, rather than only came up with one design, if that design is rejected, then there is no more designs to go into the competition.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Comac Pushes C919 Delivery Date Back Again
By Bradley Perrett
Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology

August 19, 2013
Credit: Comac Concept
Comac's managers must be pretty embarrassed by the announcement that their flagship program, the 158-seat C919 airliner, will make a delayed first flight at the end of 2015. Face is important in China, and there is a lot of it to lose if one is running a priority program intended to make the country proud.

But maybe they should recall that not only is commercial aircraft development difficult even for an experienced organization; it is all the harder for them because China has been in such a rush. And no one in the program is to blame for Comac inevitably being a Chinese state agency with burdensome bureaucratic culture.

Under the circumstances, they are not doing too badly, say some industry executives with good insight into the program. The delay announced this month means the C919, scheduled at program launch in 2008 to go into service in 2016, will not reach customers before 2017, and quite likely not until 2018. Admittedly, 10 years is a long time from launch to entry into service. But Boeing took nearly eight years to get the 787 into service, and it had been through the process seven times before. Meanwhile, Comac's ARJ21 regional jet, launched in 2002, is finally looking stable, on track for entry into service in mid-2014.

The C919 delay is the second for that program. The first, shifting the first flight from June 2014 to the second quarter of 2015, was reported by Aviation Week in June but not announced (AW&ST June 17, p. 96). The 2016 first-delivery target, not publicly revised, is unachievable. While an experienced Western manufacturer might allow just a year for flight-testing and related certification work, industry executives believe Comac will need its originally scheduled two years, even with expected help from Bombardier. So entry into service in late 2017 looks likely if all goes well, and in 2018 if unexpected problems crop up, as they often do.

The new schedule reflects the realistic attitude of the current head of Comac, Jin Zhuanglong. “The goal is not to fly an aircraft that is not certifiable,” one industry executive quotes Jin as saying. The official adds: “This [the delay] is good news, because flying an aircraft that is not representative of the production version is a big mistake.” Comac is making faster progress with its structure suppliers, all Avic units, than it is in systems. The C919 has entered the manufacturing stage, with 95% of its parts designed, says Zhang Yanzhong, who announced the delay and is the director of an expert committee that is advising the cabinet on the program. Assembly will begin next year, he says.

Rollout of the first prototype must also have been delayed a second time. After the first postponement it was supposed to happen in December 2014, but Comac cannot plan to have the aircraft sitting on the ground for a year before flying. A sixth aircraft was added to the flight-test program.

The C919 iron bird, a ground rig on which systems are tested, is finally being fitted, at first to trial mechanical and hydraulic systems; by mid-2014 it will be fully operational with all systems, says an official. As recently as a month ago nothing was mounted, a strong sign of slow development.

Zhang attributed the delay to Comac's “present level of technological expertise and experience in building commercial aircraft,” an assessment that squares with the long-standing view of industry officials familiar with the program.

But that is not the whole story. For a start, Comac should not be so inexperienced, because it was supposed to have gained knowledge and experience with the ARJ21. The shaky C919 progress bolsters arguments of Chinese industry executives that the country has been moving too fast. In their view, China should have launched a turboprop airliner early last decade, instead of the ARJ21, then a regional jet followed by something like the C919. Compounding the error, the C919 was launched when the ARJ21 was years from certification.

Some people with insight into the C919 program say Comac has a remarkable amount of money and talented engineers that it liberally throws at problems. Others say that not enough trained personnel are available. “For each major system, they have a few relatively good people,” says an industry official. “But many more are needed.” Also, the ARJ21's struggles have drawn away key people.

Perhaps comparable with inexperience and the engineering shortage is the problem of Comac's governmental culture. Delegation is not well practiced in the Chinese state, and Comac managers often prefer to push decisions to their superiors. Groups working on disparate C919 systems are not always interacting as well as they should be with each other. Last year Comac acted on that problem by appointing managers with responsibility across several systems. Avic, an older organization, suffers from the same culture, but Comac was supposed to be more modern. Insiders say it is worse, because the C919 is a national and therefore political project.

The program was late in supplier selection and then very slow in contracting with the suppliers, though they generally moved ahead without agreements. Detail design and fixing the structural layout of the aircraft have been delayed. As late as the first half of this year the center wingbox was changed from composite to conventional aerospace aluminum construction, and Comac had still not chosen a material for the fuselage. The new metal wing box was ready, however.

Some C919 suppliers have been quite late in meeting targets. In some cases that was because they underestimated the time they would take to form required joint companies with divisions of Avic; that held up the systems the joint companies would produce. The program has also been slow to define the system interfaces, which suppliers need to finalize designs.

As a Chinese state agency, Comac has been declaring milestones passed and targets achieved even though not all work has been performed. The preliminary design review of the C919 was declared complete in December 2011 when important issues still remained to be sorted out; some aspects of the approved design were later changed. Suppliers' work has been reassigned.

The Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) has been slow at times. For example, it must perform conformity inspections, ensuring that parts and systems meet specifications and match drawings. The FAA will not yet routinely endorse the Chinese certification, so the CAAC must take the time to notify the U.S. safety agency of conformity inspections. Also, Chinese documents need translation for the FAA.

Comac is aiming at completing ARJ21 flight-testing by the end of the year, leaving six months for further certification work. “There seem to be no major problems,” says an industry official. Another, agreeing, says the development schedule has been realistic since last year, when the 2014 target was set. The third volume-production ARJ21 is now under assembly and should be completed by the end of the year. Comac has ordered equipment for 20 production aircraft.

The third prototype, AC103, completed ground and flight tests for hot and humid conditions last month at Changsha. AC102 demonstrated high-altitude field performance at Golmud, Qinghai, in June. Comac quotes FAA officials as saying May trials of minimum takeoff speeds were outstanding.

Comac is compensating its suppliers for the lateness of ARJ21 certification. More supplier compensation will be due if, as is likely, the ARJ21 misses its production targets.
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It's importent to remember that setbacks part of the process and plague every aircraft production line. case in point the MRJ also announced a delay.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
MAKS: UAC continues to weigh up widebody options
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By: TOM ZAITSEV MOSCOW 11:04 27 Aug 2013 Source: Flight international.

Russia's United Aircraft continues to explore the option of developing a new widebody passenger airliner, for which it may partner with Chinese airframer Comac.

Speaking at the MAKS air show, the airframer's president Mikhail Pogosyan says design capabilities go beyond narrowbody aircraft types: "We're looking at this prospect down the road - probably after 2020."

He adds that a new widebody product would need to be superior from a technical standpoint. To this end, UAC has been in consultations with the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute (TsAGI) and other institutes focused on aviation systems and materials.

UAC is also searching for a foreign partner to jointly carry out such a project. "In particular, we discuss these issues through a dialogue with our Chinese counterpart Comac," says Pogosyan.

During his visit to Beijing in 2011, Russian president Vladimir Putin pointed to great potential for co-operation with China and proposed mounting concerted efforts to develop a new widebody to give impetus to both countries' aviation industries.
Okay now i think we are begining to see the russian Dream now. Imagine it's 2028 your about to hop a flight from Beijing to Hong Kong sitting on the Tramac is a Comac 929 it's assembled in China but built with some parts made in Russia.
 
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