The Snowden Affair

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The chinese are actually very restrained and nuanced when they retort back.

To a fault in my opinion. That's one of the reasons why they can so easily lie about China and not think twice about it. Look at when Snowden turned up in Moscow. You heard a lot of critical language towards Russia. The Russians returned it and the next day the US changed the tone.

Here's a new story.

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When Xi Jinping was in Los Angeles right before the Snowden scandal broke, apparently Xi was asked to stay at the estate with Obama where the summit took place. He declined. After the story about the US and Great Britain spying on G8 and G20 summits, it should not be surprising.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Well all I can say is that since the Edward Snowden debacle many American audiences no longer trust their own media as much. Some see it as an extension to the mouth piece of President Obama Administration. That's why we're seeing all kinds of weird lame stories from all over the world that the media normally don't print as it tries to spin the audience away from the main domestic problems.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
I'd like to know where's the class A journalism? China should be having journalists hounding Sergei Brin and Google right now about the hypocrisy of his silence after he's been attacking China for what Obama has been doing all along. What ever happened to, "Do no wrong?" The one internet company that made the biggest stink as if they were a lone champion that did something turns out to be the biggest hypocrite.

Sergei Brin and Google had already lost so many credibility by participating and assisting with the NSA spying and snooping people all across the world, it seems pointless now, unless the idiot decide to bring any thing up against China hacking into them.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Look how conveniently Western media has shut up about China's hacking and cyber-espionage of IP stuff.

Reminds me of how Western media has shut up about China's currency manipulation... it's like China bashing has it's "phases" and Western media attention space is shorter than a goldfish.

Prediction: Pollution in China is the next big phase, then ironically Solar panel dumping will reemerge (no connection to pollution/green energy investments?)...
 

J-XX

Banned Idiot
Eddie Snowden is an absolute hero. The man did the world a HUGE favour in exposing the American spying. China should give him full protection and asylum. The US is trying to stop his freedom of expression but Russia and China has given him a platform to express his thoughts. Well done Russia and China. Well done Eddie for exposing American spying and outrageous hypocrisy.
 

J-XX

Banned Idiot
Well all I can say is that since the Edward Snowden debacle many American audiences no longer trust their own media as much. Some see it as an extension to the mouth piece of President Obama Administration. That's why we're seeing all kinds of weird lame stories from all over the world that the media normally don't print as it tries to spin the audience away from the main domestic problems.

Anyone that thinks American media is 'independent' is utterly delusional. American mainstream media have always been a propaganda mouthpiece of the American regime. All American media networks have identical views regarding many issues, especially foreign policy.
 

jobjed

Captain
Eddie Snowden is an absolute hero. The man did the world a HUGE favour in exposing the American spying. China should give him full protection and asylum. The US is trying to stop his freedom of expression but Russia and China has given him a platform to express his thoughts. Well done Russia and China. Well done Eddie for exposing American spying and outrageous hypocrisy.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right. US spying is understandable, espionage is an inevitable part of international relations. The only wrong thing they're doing is acting like they're the victims even though they're probably the most active perpetrator in the world.

As for Snowden, he had a contract of trust with his employees and he broke that contract, as such, he is technically a traitor. You can debate all day whether or not he betrayed the US as a nation, but it is indisputable that he betrayed his employees.

And no China (and Russia) should not give Snowden asylum. Here is a man who risked his life to expose what he believed was wrong, namely; state surveillance and breach of privacy rights. What the hell do you think the CCP and the Putin administration is doing? The EXACT same thing, and on a larger scale. It would be extremely ironic and hypocritical for China and Russia to grant him asylum. But Russians are Russians, so I didn't expect any rational thought to be given to this matter. What the Russians are doing is a knee-jerk reaction to anything related to the US. They will act in any way possible to embarrass or troll the US regardless of any side effects.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
As for Snowden, he had a contract of trust with his employees and he broke that contract, as such, he is technically a traitor. You can debate all day whether or not he betrayed the US as a nation, but it is indisputable that he betrayed his employees.

Now that is just you looking for any excuse to call Snowden a traitor. A traitor to his employees? What next? Calling someone a deserter for quitting his job? As you said, you can debate all day if he betrayed the US as a nation, and at the end of the day, that is the only kind of betrayal that anyone cares about here.

And no China (and Russia) should not give Snowden asylum. Here is a man who risked his life to expose what he believed was wrong, namely; state surveillance and breach of privacy rights. What the hell do you think the CCP and the Putin administration is doing? The EXACT same thing, and on a larger scale. It would be extremely ironic and hypocritical for China and Russia to grant him asylum.

Water bounding and other 'enhanced interrogation methods' are all torture in the eyes of everyone except the most rabid of American nationalists or their sympathisers, so does that make it wrong for America to grant asylum to people who might be at risk of being tortured if sent back to their own countries?

It would indeed be ironic and hypocritical for China or Russia to do so, but then, since when has a little irony or hypocrisy stopped the US or its cronies from doing things that advanced their interests?

Is it not ironic and hypocritical to insist that those who you so plainly feel are morally inferior should instead act more honestly and selflessly than the supposed paragons of principle and virtue?

The reason China passed on Snowden was pragmatic, not principle. China likely have assessed that he was indeed an idealist and patriot, and a very junior one at that. Thus, he is unlikely to have known about much more than what he has already put out in the public domain, but more importantly, he is unlikely to willingly share truly useful information with Chinese or Russian intelligence agencies.

As an intelligence asset, he has almost no value, and China is not interested in playing petty PR games with the US, so it was not worth the trouble. Especially since the US is probably going to shoot itself in the foot even worse when it does finally get Snowden in its hands.

You would have to be deluded or the biggest optimists alive to think that Snowden will get anything other than a guilty verdict and a lengthy sentence, and probably suffer similar needless and petty torments as Manning, and that will damage America's image far more than what China or Russia could do by giving him asylum and keeping him safe.

But Russians are Russians, so I didn't expect any rational thought to be given to this matter. What the Russians are doing is a knee-jerk reaction to anything related to the US. They will act in any way possible to embarrass or troll the US regardless of any side effects.

Oh please, as if the US does not hold precisely the same position vis-a-vis China and Russia. If the Russians are indeed doing what you have described, it will only be giving as good as it got.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
That article is spin. They've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar and now they're trying to make it that China is conspiring with them? Yeah they're worried on how China would learn the US's spying techniques from Snowden but according to this article China already knows? How easily they forget that just a mere few weeks ago China was the only one cyber spying on anyone.
Obama and those around him are pathological liars. This means they do not care what they said even yesterday. All that is relevent to them is what they say today.

But that's not how Obama worked it. He knew the truth and China knew the truth and Obama wanted China to submit to the lies he was telling the rest of the world. He expected China to help perpetuate the lies about China itself that he was spreading by complying to demands based off of lies. And how does that build trust in this world? The fact is Obama didn't care. He knew he had the power to make the world believe in a lie. Truth be damned!

Who ever heard of a good guy who couldn't rely on the truth? What else did he lie about?
Pretty much everything. Benghazi, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Fast and Furious, Obama Care, the list goes on and on.

The Western media always notes how China shows great disrespect to Obama. Yeah maybe because China knows the truth since China has been the target of these lies many times. It started early because Copenhagen was his first year in office. No wonder they say Sino-US relations has been at its worst in decades.
Well, now, at least some, like the Washington Post are now getting more into it. The Washington Post is releasing several Powerpoint Slides from a secret NSA presentation about PRISM.

Note that anyone who subscribes to any of the services on the left, has already had all of the information listed on the right collected about them. All an NSA, FBI, CIA, DHS, or any other official has to do is request the info through the PRISM program.


prism-slide-8.jpg


This is completely unconstitutional according to US Law, and tramples on the 4th and 10th amendments to the US Constitution itself. There is no conceivable probable cause (which is required by the constitution) for each individual to have their private, personnel data collected in this manner. And they are collecting data on everyone.

As you say, they have been caught with their hands in the cookie jar clear up to their shoulders.

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[video=youtube;F5QV2hXY4xo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5QV2hXY4xo[/video]
 

jobjed

Captain
Now that is just you looking for any excuse to call Snowden a traitor. A traitor to his employees? What next? Calling someone a deserter for quitting his job? As you said, you can debate all day if he betrayed the US as a nation, and at the end of the day, that is the only kind of betrayal that anyone cares about here.



Water bounding and other 'enhanced interrogation methods' are all torture in the eyes of everyone except the most rabid of American nationalists or their sympathisers, so does that make it wrong for America to grant asylum to people who might be at risk of being tortured if sent back to their own countries?

It would indeed be ironic and hypocritical for China or Russia to do so, but then, since when has a little irony or hypocrisy stopped the US or its cronies from doing things that advanced their interests?

Is it not ironic and hypocritical to insist that those who you so plainly feel are morally inferior should instead act more honestly and selflessly than the supposed paragons of principle and virtue?

The reason China passed on Snowden was pragmatic, not principle. China likely have assessed that he was indeed an idealist and patriot, and a very junior one at that. Thus, he is unlikely to have known about much more than what he has already put out in the public domain, but more importantly, he is unlikely to willingly share truly useful information with Chinese or Russian intelligence agencies.

As an intelligence asset, he has almost no value, and China is not interested in playing petty PR games with the US, so it was not worth the trouble. Especially since the US is probably going to shoot itself in the foot even worse when it does finally get Snowden in its hands.

You would have to be deluded or the biggest optimists alive to think that Snowden will get anything other than a guilty verdict and a lengthy sentence, and probably suffer similar needless and petty torments as Manning, and that will damage America's image far more than what China or Russia could do by giving him asylum and keeping him safe.



Oh please, as if the US does not hold precisely the same position vis-a-vis China and Russia. If the Russians are indeed doing what you have described, it will only be giving as good as it got.

Spoken like a true politician.
 
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