Philippines Vs Taiwan... Troubled Waters

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

ManilaBoy45 said:

Taiwanese Vessel Tried to Ram BFAR Ship - Palace

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By Willard Cheng, ABS-CBN News
Posted at 05/10/2013 4:50 PM | Updated as of 05/10/2013 4:50 PM

MANILA - Malacañang described as an “aggressive act” the attempt of a reported Taiwanese vessel to ram into a Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) vessel that prompted the Philippine Coast Guard personnel to fire at the vessel seen near Batanes.

“It was an aggressive act. The ramming of the boat into our vessel was certainly an aggressive act. So the PCG responded accordingly. Nag-warning shot sila, hindi po tumigil. They took the other necessary action and I understand eventually disengaged after that. So let’s see kung ano pa ho ang mailalabas ng investigation ng PCG,” deputy presidential spokesperson Abigail Valte said. Valte however stressed that she is citing an initial report of the PCG and that the government will have to wait for the results of the investigation before making a comment on reports that Taiwan is asking for an apology.

“I reiterate that the information that I shared with you is part of the initial report that was given by the PCG and the BFAR. May inorder na po si Commandant (Rodolfo) Isorena na investigation on the matter. Tingnan po natin kung ano pa ‘yung further details na mailalabas ‘nung investigation,” she said. Citing the initial report of the PCG, Valte said the PCG personnel had tried to board the vessels after detecting them “in archipelagic waters.” The PCG fired a warning shot when one the foreign vessels was about to ram the BFAR vessel.

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That still doesn't explain why no followup action after the "warning shots", and instead of usual law enforcement - boarding, impounding, arresting, etc - actions followed suit the fishing boat left to its own fate. Seriously, if you gonna "incapacitate" a vessel that means you're intended to board it and do all the other things, shots fired (reportedly the engagement lasted an hour) and then left? That's why I call it a half-arsed action.

Or is the PCG thought they shot and killed everyone, and the sea will soon consume the evidence for them later?

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS

Taiwan claims jurisdiction in case of fisherman's death
2013/05/10 19:38:15
A foreign ministry official (right) visits the family of fisherman Hung Shih-cheng Friday.

Taipei, May 10 (CNA) The Taiwanese government has jurisdiction in the case of a fisherman who was shot dead by a Philippines official vessel and will demand that the Southeast Asian country bring the killer to justice, a Ministry of Justice (MOJ) official said Friday.

The MOJ has contacted the Philippine authorities through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA), seeking a preliminary finding regarding the incident, said Chen Wen-chi, head of the ministry's Department of International and Cross-Strait Legal Affairs.

Hung Shih-cheng, 65, was fatally wounded when a vessel of the Philippine Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources fired upon the fishing boat he was working on -- the Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28 -- on Thursday morning.

The incident took place 164 nautical miles southeast of Taiwan's southernmost tip, in waters in the overlapping exclusive economic zones of Taiwan and the Philippines.

The Pingtung District Prosecutors Office was asked to examine Hung's body and the fishing boat, which was being towed back to Taiwan by the Coast Guard Administration and was expected to arrive Saturday, Chen said.

The Philippines' envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, apologized publicly to Hung's family and said his country welcomes a joint investigation by Taiwanese and Philippine law enforcement authorities.

Taiwan can prosecute the Philippine killer if the individual is found to have unlawfully fired the shot that killed Hung, Chen went on, noting that the Taiwanese government can ask the Philippines to help collect evidence and bring the killer in under a bilateral legal assistance pact signed in late April.

The MOJ will also help Hung's family to seek compensation, Chen added.

Meanwhile, Minister without Portfolio Lin Jung-tzer visited Hung's family in Pingtung's outlying Siaoliouciou Island Friday, and gave the family NT$50,000 (US$1,682.39) to express the government's condolences.

Talking to Premier Jiang Yi-huah on the phone during Lin's visit, Hung's family asked the government to hold an international press conference to issue a strong protest to the Philippines, which Jiang promised to do.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

AssassinsMace said:

The question is if true the assaulting vessel ran away from the scene, what "oh sh**" realization made them say get out of here? It's already bad enough they fired with deadly force upon a fishing vessel. That didn't make them run.

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Because the PCG boat captain did not bother to look at what flag was the fishing boat carrying and just saw some Chinese characters on the side of the fishing vessel and just assumed that ALL Chinese are the same...and than...ooooppps...my bad, pops in his mind.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

It would be interesting to see what Taiwan's response will ultimately be to this incident. My first guess would be both governments will try to sweep it under the rug.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Equation said:

Because the PCG boat captain did not bother to look at what flag was the fishing boat carrying and just saw some Chinese characters on the side of the fishing vessel and just assumed that ALL Chinese are the same...and than...ooooppps...my bad, pops in his mind.

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I don't think so... Precisely, they know exactly what flag its flying and that's why they dare to shoot at it... If its PRC boat, I can assure you, it will be 10 times worst what Philippine will face.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

no_name said:

Apparently Philippines forces opened fir on a Taiwanese fishing boat operating in open sea, killing one Taiwanese fisherman.

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Well, the Phillipines are denying it, saying they have no knowledge of it.

It would be crazy for the Phillipines to use their "warship" to attack any other nation in the area, particularly Tawain or the mainland.

Both of those nations have a much, much stronger navy than the very insignificant Phillipines force whose largest combatant is, to my knowledge, a 45-year old Endurance Class US Coast Guard cutter, the former USCGC Dallas, sporting a single 76mm gun, and 3,250 tons, which was transferred in May, 2012.

I doubt that ship was involved in this.

If a Phillipine commander ordered the shooting, he better have a darn good reason, otherwise, if it was not ordered or even known about by his superiors, he will face (and should face) charges for the death, unless there was a reason to do so...like self defense.

My guess is that we will hear more about the details of this in the coming days...but I cannot imagine a scenrio where the Phillipine government will admit to having ordered it, or even known about it. It is an absolute lose-lose for them.

solarz said:

It would be interesting to see what Taiwan's response will ultimately be to this incident. My first guess would be both governments will try to sweep it under the rug.

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I don't think so, but we will see. Right now the Tawain government is promising to bring the killer to justice under Taiwan law.

CNA said:

Taipei, May 10 (CNA) The Taiwanese government has jurisdiction in the case of a fisherman who was shot dead by a Philippines official vessel and will demand that the Southeast Asian country bring the killer to justice, a Ministry of Justice (MOJ) official said Friday.

The MOJ has contacted the Philippine authorities through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA), seeking a preliminary finding regarding the incident, said Chen Wen-chi, head of the ministry's Department of International and Cross-Strait Legal Affairs.

The Philippines' envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, apologized publicly to Hung's family and said his country welcomes a joint investigation by Taiwanese and Philippine law enforcement authorities.

Taiwan can prosecute the Philippine killer if the individual is found to have unlawfully fired the shot that killed Hung, Chen went on, noting that the Taiwanese government can ask the Philippines to help collect evidence and bring the killer in under a bilateral legal assistance pact signed in late April.

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Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Jeff Head said:

Well, the Phillipines are denying it, saying they have no knowledge of it.

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They've admitted it.

I don't think so, but we will see. Right now the Tawain government is promising to bring the killer to justice under Taiwan law.

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Even if the PH gov't sends a scapegoat to be prosecuted in Taiwan, that doesn't address the underlying "WTF" issue of a warship firing on a fishing vessel.

I would be impressed if that actually gets addressed.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

MwRYum said:

That still doesn't explain why no followup action after the "warning shots", and instead of usual law enforcement - boarding, impounding, arresting, etc - actions followed suit the fishing boat left to its own fate. Seriously, if you gonna "incapacitate" a vessel that means you're intended to board it and do all the other things, shots fired (reportedly the engagement lasted an hour) and then left? That's why I call it a half-arsed action.

Or is the PCG thought they shot and killed everyone, and the sea will soon consume the evidence for them later?

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Other valid questions for them to answer.

1) Was there any communications between PCG vessel and PCG dispatch in Philippines? You think if the fishing boat was so "aggressive" that you acted in self-defense, there would have been a call in to report and to call for possible backup. Heck, there would have been a call even when initially deciding to make the interdiction. So hand over copies of those tapes. Didn't happen? Highly suspicious that it was self defense then.

2) Show the vessel, show where it was rammed. Let's have forensics take a shot at it.

3) Why no formal protest or notification to Taiwan for supposed illegal fishing? The Philippines have shown no qualms about complaining when they think they are violated. Heck, that makes headlines and minute updates in the Philippine media with previous Chinese incidents. Why different this time? Utter silence during those initial hours.


I hope Taiwan shows pics of the fishing boat with the bullet holes. I want to see what direction the bullets were coming from, did it hit the boat from the bow side or stern side. Because I fail to see a self defense move if it was from the stern side, ramming your ship with their stern? Doubtful. So that would mean PCG vessel would be pursuing and that's not self defense. Ultimately, as the other poster puts it, it doesn't justify why after all the shooting, you just leave the scene. You're the one with the "badge".


The incident in 2006 didn't lead to any arrest or justice.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Lion said:

I don't think so... Precisely, they know exactly what flag its flying and that's why they dare to shoot at it... If its PRC boat, I can assure you, it will be 10 times worst what Philippine will face.

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I concur, there's plenty of incidents further south between China and Philippines and the latter treats each issue with kid gloves. I normally don't like some of the heavy handedness China uses but when seeing the distinctive difference in treatment the Philippines employs between China and Taiwan, I can't fault China for being blunt, because it works. This incident highly undermines the credibility of the Philippines. All those accusations about what happens at sea from China.....I would take them all with a grain of salt. As much as there is Chinese propaganda, Filipinos do it themselves.

solarz said:

Even if the PH gov't sends a scapegoat to be prosecuted in Taiwan, that doesn't address the underlying "WTF" issue of a warship firing on a fishing vessel..

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It's not a warship but still, an official government vessel.



China can really step up on it's soft power here with Taiwan from this incident. Donate a pair of new 1000 ton cutters to Taiwan, complete with water cannons, helo pad, and weapon mounts, but no weapons, to show symbolic unity as the Taiwanese CGA lacks larger vessels to maintain presence out there on the outer edges. Japan wants to play the spolier game by donating boats, so can China.

Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

I'm wondering why they would open fire at all. Does the Philippines have a history of firing on unarmed vessels? Any other country... it's not like it would serve a purpose especially since every country in the region is against China. But if they thought it was from China, ironically, they could get something. They can't make up a story with any other country except for China because the West would so easily believe it. They probably thought they can play victim by orchestrating a fake incident and accuse China of aggression in order to get free stuff from the US but they ended up firing on the wrong ship.