J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Irrelevant, as It is not related to sustained flight at high angle of attack which I brought up in relation to the J-20.


In your own words, the necessity of installing extra radars would be a compromise. Those radars exist because Su-35 cannot see aircraft such as the F-22 at the range that F-22 can detect the Su-35.


UHF radar is only useful for detection. It cannot be used for fire control purposes. Nothing defeats stealth better than stealth itself.

No, it is not, kolokol is relevant specially when you claimed the J-20 was chosen because it proved to be superior over the SAC design, it is just conviniently for you to claim is irrelevant.
Is it irrelevant?
Only if the J-20 either uses TVC nozzles or HMS and higly offbored missiles.


Today`s S-400 SAM use a radar system similar to what Su-35S or T-50 use, a mixture of 3 or 5 radars, a main radar on the radome and 2 or 4 auxilairy radars on the wings, and the range of interception is in the range of 400km for football target size RCS flying supersonic in the case of S-400 SAMs

see
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another detail UHF radars can track targets and modern ones claim to be effective for tracking stealth fighters

see

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plus another detail stealth aircraft use bowtie of pacman radar signature management
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, which means the stealth aircraft still reflects radar waves that can be detected by radars possitioned at 30 deg from the Stealth aircraft main longitudinal axis.


According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter's head of future requirements capture, the F-35's frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AWACS at a 25º to 30º angle to the F-35's most likely approach path to a target.




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In fact J-20 needs to be stealth just because today`s radars have become so effective even to detect VLO like J-20
 
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Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Dear MiG-29 ... You had a clear ond unmisunderstandable warning and now its enough !

STOP posting all irrelevant stuff and stay on topic.


Deino
 

Engineer

Major
No, it is not, kolokol is relevant specially when you claimed the J-20 was chosen because it proved to be superior over the SAC design, it is just conviniently for you to claim is irrelevant.
Of course kolokol is irrelevant. That is because kolokol is a post-stall maneuver, not a controlled flight at high angle of attack. It is that simple.

Also, J-20 being chosen over SAC's triplane design is not a claim. It is a well known fact.

Is it irrelevant?
Only if the J-20 either uses TVC nozzles or HMS and higly offbored missiles.
Thrust vectoring is used on aircraft as those aircraft are aerodynamically compromised by the use of tailplane. Specifically, those aircraft lose control effectiveness because the tailplane stalls at high angle of attack. The J-20 uses a canard layout, which doesn't encounter such a problem. Thus, the J-20 has no need for thrust vectoring. No Eurofighter operator bothered to employ thrust vectoring for the same reason.

Today`s S-400 SAM use a radar system similar to what Su-35S or T-50 use, a mixture of 3 or 5 radars, a main radar on the radome and 2 or 4 auxilairy radars on the wings, and the range of interception is in the range of 400km for football target size RCS flying supersonic in the case of S-400 SAMs

see
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Irrelevant. S-400 isn't an aircraft.

another detail UHF radars can track targets and modern ones claim to be effective for tracking stealth fighters

see

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Irrelevant, as UHF radars are not aircraft and have nothing to do with sustained flight at high angle of attack. Your use of the fallacy of
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isn't going to negate what the J-20 is designed to do.

plus another detail stealth aircraft use bowtie of pacman radar signature management
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, which means the stealth aircraft still reflects radar waves that can be detected by radars possitioned at 30 deg from the Stealth aircraft main longitudinal axis.


According to Laurie Hilditch, Eurofighter's head of future requirements capture, the F-35's frontal-aspect stealth can be defeated by stationing interceptors and AWACS at a 25º to 30º angle to the F-35's most likely approach path to a target.

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Again irrelevant, since radar signature has nothing to do with an aircraft's aerodynamic capability. With or without stealth, the J-20 has better performance than its competitor which shown controllability at 65° AoA. To achieve similar feats, aircraft such as Su-35 and PAKFA must rely on thrust vectoring, which highlights the compromise resulted from the use of tailplane.


In fact J-20 needs to be stealth just because today`s radars have become so effective even to detect VLO like J-20
Right now, you are so desperate in putting down the J-20 without facts that you cannot form a coherent statement. J-20 has stealth not because radars are good at picking up stealth, but because radars are not good at picking up stealth. LMAO! What's more, the J-20 has stealth because stealth is the best way to defeat stealth.

In a situation where a stealth aircraft meets an unstealthy opponent, the former can achieve first detection and first shot. Countering that basically come down to two approaches. The first, used by J-20, is to use stealth and treat the first stealth aircraft with its own medicine. This takes the abilities of first detection and first shot away from the first stealth aircraft. The second, is to use other means of detecting the stealth aircraft, such as UHF radar. Since the second method can only detect and doesn't have the resolution to shoot, it does not equalize the playing field. So at the end of the day, an unstealty aircraft with UHF radar is still inferior to a stealth aircraft.
 
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Engineer

Major
Apparently, the thing that sticks out of the aircraft is the launcher rail for short-range AAM. So before launch, the entire AAM is stuck outside of the aircraft. This is different from F-22's approach which only sticks the tip of the AAM out of the aircraft.

KIE91wG.jpg


goYVKbg.jpg


Tags: China; Imgur; J-20; launch rail; test flight; short-range AAM; side weapon bay; weapon bay;
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
To see it stick out that far from that angle... is it possible they could fit two AAMs and we're just not seeing the other rail?

Here's a nice pic of the recent flight.

27_242104_a5299da1f90da5c_zpsa2c14be6.jpg


Here's a direct link if you want the original size.

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Remember to replace the asterisk with a "s".
 
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MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Deino

I want to ask you, what is stay on topic?

The J-20 is an aircraft. so if i speak about its aerodynamics is it wrong?
If i speak about stealth its Basing my points upon resources i know is it wrong?


Tell me what is the way i should reply? what can i say what i am allowed to say?

Be open to others opinions, your background is different to mine.

I usually post my sources to say an opinion.

If i will say an aircraft can do this or that i base it upon sources, i do not rely on my pure opinion, but base it upon what i read.

Is it wrong to talk about the way they might detect J-20?


I do not think i am off topic i just think you have different interests than mine and different background, in fact what is wrong about using sources to support your opinions.


I also have the right to give my opinion using the knowledge available to me, and in that i do not think i have broken any forum law.

Perhaps you do not like seeing J-20 from an aerodynamic point of view, my view is from an aerodynamic view, my opinion is from an aerodynamic view, try to guess what i am studying at University.

i do not think seeing J-20 as from an aerodynamic point of view is off topic because J-20 is an aircraft.

You might be interested only in pictures, me too, perhaps in dates, me too, but i also see the J-20 as an aerodynamic object.
Remember we see the world through the filters of our experience and our interests.

I know sometimes we might stray from topic but i do not think the way i see J-20 is wrong, i simply base my opinions upon what i read.

But okay i will open another thread titled J-20 analysis just to compromise with you.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
New enhanced pics. Now I'm totally confused how this thing might work. It doesn't look like it's just door open and rail pops out. Whatever that is in the pic looks like it swings out from the bottom edge of the bay door opening.

082718clfrttlit75757tn_jpg_thumb_zpsf73cc78e.jpg

083146z2bibib446obcirw_jpg_thumb_zpsf1874c68.jpg

a74ecc4cjw1e2wn2sq0crj_zps88f0993c.jpg
 

jobjed

Captain
another detail UHF radars can track targets and modern ones claim to be effective for tracking stealth fighters

Okay.. but how are you going to shoot it down? UHF radars can't lock onto aircraft, only X-band can. UHF being able to spot aircraft but unable to shoot it down is just like you being able to see your enemy but you have no gun to shoot him with.
 

ahadicow

Junior Member
Okay.. but how are you going to shoot it down? UHF radars can't lock onto aircraft, only X-band can. UHF being able to spot aircraft but unable to shoot it down is just like you being able to see your enemy but you have no gun to shoot him with.

stop.... fueling him
 
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