China Flanker Thread II

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Lion

Senior Member
Subedei said:
is the j-15 program mature enough to warrant it's own thread on sdf, yet?
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I actually agree with your sentiment. We shall start a carrier aircraft thread. In future , Y-7 AEW, J-15/J-15S or JL-15 may come along.. It's more than enough to have a thread if its own.
 
K

kyuryu

Junior Member
escobar said:
J-11B has been upgraded with ESA radar??
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I think he was referring to the networking, EW, and integration of domestic Chinese weapons, to the best of my knowledge only the J-20, J-15 and perhaps the J-16 have thus far been spotted sporting the light-mid grey radar dome that is indicative of the Chinese AESA installation.

Hopefully in time, future production runs of the J-11 (J-11B+ or J-11C?) might include an AESA and perhaps more powerful engines.

These enhancements representative relatively low-risk, high impact capability upgrades to ensure these platforms remain competitive with their regional counterparts e.g. AESA equipped F-15's until such time as they're ready to field production ready J-20 and J-21/31 aircraft in 2017/18 to 2020.
 
Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
escobar said:
J-15 is just a flanker derivative, no need for another thread.
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I agree, lets keep the Flankers together, the fact is that the China Flanker thread has been J-15 focused of late anyway, lets not confuse the issue just to make some nebulous point.
 
S

stack

New Member
AeroEngineer said:
J-11B is the real lincense Flanker, it is what Su-27M should be. But these russians shamlessly supplied China sub standard parts like old radars, unrealiable missiles (R-77E), and underpower engine (AL-31F), plus stone aged avonics. China simply reject these parts and put their own advanced kits such as radars, WS-10 engine, PL-12 missile and far more advanced avonics on to these flankers. China paid big bucks for these flankers and is entile to put what ever it wants on to them. If Russia fail to meet or unwilling to meet Chinese demand they can FU@K off !

J-15 is developed from J-11B and T-10K from Ukraine. Same story, Russia offered China the base line Su-33 which is pure crap in today's standard. They hope to make big bucks from it like Su-30MKK then use that money to make more advanced verson and sell it to other country like india. China stop that dead in its trap and now russians are crying like baby. Whos fault is it ? It is russia's fault. They have not learn the lesson from J-11B, and made the same mistake twice !

Bottom line, if russia can not or unwilling to offer its best then get lost.


And now they craw back with their Su-35 with their most advanced stuffs like IRBIS radar, and 117S engine. It seems that they have finially learn that lesson. Now it is up to China to determine weather to buy it or not !
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I read an article sometime ago on the origin of J11B. It seems that when the first batch of basic SU-27 kits was delivered, the Russian botched up big time on the parts. The knocked down kits did not fit together due to incorrectly sourced suppliers from different parts of Russia (remember that the flankers have many versions). To rectify the problem, Sukhoi have to send engineers to work with their Chinese counterparts to conduct a "blue printing" exercise. This means they have to literally share the blue print of the aircraft to ensure the correct parts are sourced as per their original specification down to every last rivets, nuts and bolts. At the end of the exercise, the knocked down kits were finally assembled correctly, the by-product of this exercised is a very high degree of knowledge transfer. Unlike other countries who are Sukhoi customer, the Chinese already have a substantial aeronautical engineering base, now with this knowledge now in hand, the Chinese decided that they can build better flanker airframe than the Russians. It seems that even after this one-off exercise, Sukhoi have not shown that they have really rectified the root cause of their kit delivery issue and it was likely that the next batch will face the same problem, so the Chinese decided to stop ordering the kits and do it themselves.

I am not sure how much of the above is true, but it was an interesting explanation on the origin of J11B.
 
K

kyanges

Junior Member
stack said:
I read an article sometime ago on the origin of J11B. It seems that when the first batch of basic SU-27 kits was delivered, the Russian botched up big time on the parts. The knocked down kits did not fit together due to incorrectly sourced suppliers from different parts of Russia (remember that the flankers have many versions). To rectify the problem, Sukhoi have to send engineers to work with their Chinese counterparts to conduct a "blue printing" exercise. This means they have to literally share the blue print of the aircraft to ensure the correct parts are sourced as per their original specification down to every last rivets, nuts and bolts. At the end of the exercise, the knocked down kits were finally assembled correctly, the by-product of this exercised is a very high degree of knowledge transfer. Unlike other countries who are Sukhoi customer, the Chinese already have a substantial aeronautical engineering base, now with this knowledge now in hand, the Chinese decided that they can build better flanker airframe than the Russians. It seems that even after this one-off exercise, Sukhoi have not shown that they have really rectified the root cause of their kit delivery issue and it was likely that the next batch will face the same problem, so the Chinese decided to stop ordering the kits and do it themselves.

I am not sure how much of the above is true, but it was an interesting explanation on the origin of J11B.
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Even if only the part about the tech-transfer were true, it would make accusations that China can somehow reverse engineer entire planes from a few terabytes of stolen files in 3 years even more ridiculous.

Any more details on where you read this? Maybe we could find it again.
 
J

jackliu

Banned Idiot
kyanges said:
Even if only the part about the tech-transfer were true, it would make accusations that China can somehow reverse engineer entire planes from a few terabytes of stolen files in 3 years even more ridiculous.

Any more details on where you read this? Maybe we could find it again.
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No less ridiculous than the fact that China can reverse an entire stealth jet from the ruins debris of a shot down F-117, but hey!!! A LOT of people actually believe it.
 
A

A.Man

Major
jackliu said:
No less ridiculous than the fact that China can reverse an entire stealth jet from the ruins debris of a shot down F-117, but hey!!! A LOT of people actually believe it.
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Ha ha, those guys can get girls pregnant just by looking at them. They touch women shoulders; then the women will mass produce babies.
 
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