AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
There must of been some other malfunction. If it was the oxygen problem again, I don't think the pilot would've safely ejected.
US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Well, it can still happen I remember reading that the last F-22 crash, the pilot regain awareness few second before impact, and he actually ejected out of the plane, but it was too late he still died from the impact.
What I don't understand is, why don't they just use the old oxygen system from F-16 and F-15. They never had any problem with it.
Pointblank
Senior Member
Easy. The OBGOS system is actually on paper the superior system. It's requires less maintenance and doesn't require the use of LOX, which is extremely nasty stuff, and has a very demanding set of procedures when working around the aircraft with it. If you can eliminate the LOX airman & his trailer you also eliminate the following:
- Onbase LOX Plant
- Deploying the LOX airman & his trailer
- Equipping airlift aircraft to transport the LOX trailer (needs to be vented)
- Retirement, disability, medical benefits for the LOX airman
- LOX airman's tech school
- Bureaucracy associated with the LOX airman. His boss, his boss's boss, awards & decs, performance reports
The elimination of LOX when possible is a major bonus considering how hazardous it is. The biggest problem is the safety rules that LOX operations impose. From memory, there was a 50m personnel exclusion zone and a 100m vehicle/ignition source exclusion zone around the aircraft during replenishment, during which only the LOX techs could be on the plane.
I will also note that the F/A-18 also uses a OBGOS system... the USN has also reported hypoxia related incidents as well, 64 occurances of this same type (although less public than the F-22's). The F/A-18 uses a totally different system, and the USN work around for their hypoxia related incidents was to upgrade hypoxia-awareness training. Finally, however, two corrective steps are being undertaken on the Hornet and Super Hornet fleet: the oxygen concentrator is being upgraded with the addition of a catalyst that converts carbon monoxide to benign carbon dioxide. In the future, the USN will install a solid-state oxygen-monitoring system on all in-service F/A-18s that tracks both oxygen concentration and pressure rather than O2 concentration alone.
The F-22 flies and cruises at a much higher altitude than any other fighter in the USAF inventory. While the exact maximum altitude a F-22 is classified, it is generally agreed upon by military analysts that the F-22 is designed to fly at altitude of over 70,000ft. Obviously, any issues with the oxygen generation or the ECS packs is greatly magnified at such higher altitudes.
"Internal documents and emails obtained by The Associated Press earlier this year show Air Force experts actually proposed a range of solutions by 2005, including adjustments to the flow of oxygen into pilot's masks. But that key recommendation was rejected by military officials reluctant to add costs to a program that was already well over budget. "
Well then, the pilot has to be the sacrifice？
Could it be said that a shame for those administration officers？
IMHO, no matter for what, human life is the most important,
as this is what those advanced fighters designed to defend, but not to torture.
Well then, the pilot has to be the sacrifice？
Could it be said that a shame for those administration officers？
IMHO, no matter for what, human life is the most important,
as this is what those advanced fighters designed to defend, but not to torture.
Or you could just make a bunch of wild speculations that show how little you really understand about aircraft and the life support systems, this aircraft was being recovered, the pilot ejected safely, so we will likely know shortly?
For the pilot the difference between 50000' and 70000' is small. So the problem must lie with the handling of the air and the extraction of the oxygen from the air at that altitude. In other words the design of the installation is deficient. Is that true? Should the existing installation be compared with a newly designed one, perhaps from another provider?
Actually Master Delft,
The operation of any aircraft above 35,000 ft has always been fraught with peril, and the jump from 50,000 to 80,000 is operationally and physiologically treacherous, and might as well be near space. Operationally the aircraft engines are operating in a very hostile environment, the critical altitudes for the F-22 are classified, Gen Norton Scwhartz stated "the Raptor will maintain a 6g turn at 50,000 ft, what other aircraft can do that?" The answer is of course NONE as most aircraft are struggling to manuever at all in the rareffied air above 50,000ft.Physiologically the environment is extremely hostile and requires a very sophisticated life support system to not only sustain life, but enable the pilot to perform his mission with a very high level of mental and physical accuity. To make a blanket condemnation of the F-22 life support system is arrogant or ignorant, or both, and you sir are neither, so I would most respectfully ask that we leave the bombastic statements to the fanboys and acknowledge the operational challenges facing the Raptor team. I know you are a bright and fair minded lad, and to be fair, all of these aircraft will face similar challenges, and will have difficult challenges awaiting the design teams. AFB
ManilaBoy45
Junior Member
Makes sense ...
Sadly, there is a tendancy to do that...and that is why I urge people to be patient and wait...in the US, a detailed study and analysis will be done and the public will be infromed.
Also AFB, that was a great post about the difficulties associated with operating above 50K ft, and what the Raptor can do up there.
Just makes you all the more in awe of what the US and the Skunk Works did with the SR-71 in the late 50s and early 60s!
I can garauntee that something a whole lot better is flying now...doing that same strategic recon mission in the high, rarified, near-space altitudes and at hyper speeds..
And I am patiently waiting for the first pix of the sixth gen prototype and hoping that we resist the false economies of the UCAV, having heard the promises, but seen the results, I am still a firm believer in the manned fighter aircraft. In the meantime a 5.5 upgrade of the Raptor, following the basic planform, at the same time incorporating all the new tech, twin engined, retaining the stealth and supercruise of the Raptor, as well as most of the supermanueverability, to retain that aerodynamic edge that has kept the free world free. Prolly to much to hope for from the BHO crowd, so we prolly better pray!
Your are certainly right about the Oxcart, and you can see her shadow in the J-20, which of course proves how good she actually was 50 plus years ago. AFB