2012 US Presidential Election discussion.

jackliu

Banned Idiot
:mad:

[video=youtube;OjrthOPLAKM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjrthOPLAKM[/video]

Isn't it funny people are viewing this video for fun, but cannot see the absurdity of the system, where politicians spend billions to get elected while pissing people off and spread lies doing it, it is not about the democracy anymore, it is all about GETTING ELECTED!!!!
 

Rising China

Junior Member
How the China Trade Helped Make America

This year’s presidential election has brought the latest round of China bashing, but the anti-Chinese strain in American politics ignores our long and highly profitable history of trade and commerce with the country writes Eric Jay Dolin.

by Eric Jay Dolin | November 4, 2012 4:45 AM EST

China bashing has become a cottage industry during this Presidential season. Whether it’s griping about the trade deficit, decrying the amount of our debt China owns, or skewering China’s currency policies, Americans see bogeymen around nearly every corner. The merits of such concerns are debatable, and I gladly leave those arguments to policy wonks and modern-day China watchers. But, it is important to remember that our relationship with China goes all the way back to the beginning of the Republic, and in those dramatic and tempestuous years of America’s youth, the China trade provided a much needed, and greatly appreciated boost to the American economy. Back then, China wasn’t a threat, it was a golden opportunity.

It is not surprising that Americans pursued the China trade as soon as the American Revolution ended. After all, American colonists had long had a love affair with things Chinese. From the mid-1600s up until the eve of the revolution, the British East India Company supplied the American colonists with Chinese goods, most importantly tea, which Americans consumed at a rate of more than one billion cups annually in the early 1770s.

Before the revolution, Americans had been barred from entering the China trade on account of the British East India Company’s monopoly on Far Eastern commerce. But when America won the war, the Company’s monopoly no longer applied, and Americans were free to trade with China, and trade they did.

Between 1784, when the Empress of China blazed the trail, and the end of the War of 1812, nearly three hundred American ships made a total of 618 voyages to Canton.

These ships carried cargoes of ginseng, sea otter and fur seal skins, opium, sandalwood, and Spanish silver dollars, which were used to purchase Chinese tea, silk, porcelain, and other exotic items.

Among the merchants who took the lead in the China trade were John Jacob Astor of New York, Stephen Girard of Philadelphia, and Elias Hasket Derby of Salem. Their China trading and other business activities made them among the wealthiest people in the United States, with Derby becoming the country’s first millionaire, Astor its first multimillionaire, and Girard nearly equaling Astor’s fortune.

Although merchants benefited most from the China trade, they weren’t the only ones who were enriched. During the Revolution, much of America’s merchant fleet was destroyed by the British navy, which tenaciously targeted American ships at sea and in port. That meant that new ships had to be built for the burgeoning China trade, bringing shipyards back to life and employing thousands of men in various trades.

Those ships had to be outfitted, employing thousands more, and they had to be manned, which created a high demand for officers and crew. Each time a ship returned, its owners had to pay customs fees to the government, and when the ships’ cargoes were sold in shops they created another source of revenue.

Thus in many ways the impacts of the China trade were felt far and wide. The money funneled into shipbuilding, outfitting, and manning the ships, paying the taxes, and selling the goods cascaded through the economy and made it stronger. The emerging China trade also placed the United States on a firmer footing to defend its rights upon the seas by serving as a nursery for seamen who could be called upon by the merchant marine and naval forces to help defend the country.

The most prominent and successful China merchants plowed their millions into a wide array of business ventures—including railroads, banks, and mining ventures—that helped build America’s nineteenth-century economic and industrial might.
After the War of 1812, up through the Civil War, the China trade continued to enrich merchants and bolster the economy, at times exceeding 4 percent of the nation’s foreign commerce. The China trade also led to the development of clipper ships, the “greyhounds of the sea,” arguably the most magnificent sailing vessels ever built, which were designed to get to China and back quickly, because the fresher the tea, the higher the prices that could be charged.


The China trade was an early engine of American investment. The most prominent and successful China merchants plowed their millions into a wide array of business ventures—including railroads, banks, and mining ventures—that helped build America’s nineteenth-century economic and industrial might. And many China merchants invariably became philanthropists, leaving behind lasting legacies.

These American fortunes, and all their good works, however, must be weighed against the damage that was done in acquiring them. Many of America’s China traders earned a significant portion of their wealth from the morally and legally indefensible opium trade. And though the Opium Wars (1839-42 and 1856-60) were not American wars, Americans still bear a heavy responsibility for having nurtured the drug trade.

Perhaps the most enduring, and certainly the most beautiful legacy of the early China trade can be seen in art museums and people’s homes, which contain exquisite objects brought over from the Middle Kingdom.
So, when you read the heated, and often overblown news coverage on the tribulations of the modern China trade, bear in mind that we have been trading with China for more than 225 years, and in many ways, that has been a good thing.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
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Analysis: Romney is likely to break "day-one" China currency pledge
By Nick Edwards | Reuters – 2 hrs 5 mins ago.. .


BEIJING (Reuters) - U.S. Presidential candidate Mitt Romney would lack the legal power to label China a currency manipulator on his first day in office should he win Tuesday's election, offering him a way out of what experts say is the weakest claim on the issue for years.

The authority to make the formal accusation lies with the U.S. Treasury Secretary, which could be a face-saving remedy former U.S. officials say Romney might need after he repeatedly said he would declare China a currency manipulator, as part of his campaign to suggest President Barack Obama had been soft on the country.

A public slap at Beijing on his first day in the White House in January could carry serious consequences for both countries and the global economy, putting at risk bilateral trade between the world's two biggest trading nations - valued in Chinese customs figures at some $540 billion in 2011.

It would almost certainly compel the new leadership in China, also set to be unveiled this month, to respond in some fashion, escalating the risk of a trade war with the world's second-largest economy - one Romney would likely have to fight without the support of the IMF or WTO and with the most recent economic evidence stacked against him.

"Romney has painted himself into a bit of a corner on the currency issue," said David Loevinger, emerging markets managing director at Los Angeles fund firm TCW, which he joined in June from the Treasury where he was senior co-ordinator for China affairs and the U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue.

"If you look at the law it is not the President that has that authority, it's the Treasury Secretary. And on day one he is not going to have a Senate-confirmed Treasury Secretary," Loevinger told Reuters.

That could be just as well.

A Romney White House would be applying the label to China as trade imbalances are shrinking, the dollar is falling and the yuan is rising - while trying to repay political capital to major corporate donors, many of which have substantial business interests in China and would be unlikely to want to rock Beijing's boat too much.

"Over the last decade, this seems like the oddest moment to pick a fight with China as a currency manipulator," Loevinger said.

Even more so, China's yuan has rallied 17 percent against the dollar in nominal terms during the last five years and the country's trade surplus as a proportion of GDP has shrunk some 75 percent. Foreign exchange reserves have remained largely static for 18 months, implying no major central bank intervention in the currency.

It's not the kind of evidence likely to win an argument at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) - the key global body with power to impose penalties in international trade disputes, but which experts say has never ruled on a currency case.

"The WTO agreement nowhere, even under the subsidy and countervailing measures agreement, says anything about currency manipulation," Spencer Griffith, managing partner in the Beijing office of U.S. law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, who has practiced international trade law for more than 20 years, said.

"You could go to a WTO panel and try to argue that currency manipulation violates China's WTO obligations. My bet is that the United States would lose that case," Griffith added.

TRADE ROW RISKS

That suggests a Romney White House would instead try to levy duties on China under domestic trade law, a process that could take the Commerce Department a year and likely prompt Beijing to file a complaint with the WTO that such duties are invalid under WTO rules - a case Griffith reckons Beijing is likely to win.

It could drag out a row for years, putting two-way trade at risk, especially as the new leadership of China's Communist Party - set to be unveiled at a congress starting later this week in a once-a-decade transfer of power - would likely want to demonstrate it is no pushover.

U.S. firms operating in China already complain about unfair competition, discrimination and barriers to domestic market entry. That would be made worse if Romney kicked off a protracted trade dispute.

"I do not underestimate at all the political and economic backlash that Romney labeling China a currency manipulator would create," said the head of one U.S. business in China, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is even less likely to be interested in claims of currency malfeasance than the WTO, as it has no obligation to respond to such complaints.

In addition, the IMF's assessment of the relative value of China's yuan, also known as the renminbi, shifted significantly in a landmark report in July in which it concluded the currency was "moderately undervalued", softening its previous view that the yuan was "substantially undervalued".

As a medium-term analysis of the currency's dynamics, the implication is that the language may not shift again for several years - especially given the IMF's relatively stable projections for China's current account surplus out to 2017.

But worse than being isolated internationally for Romney would be being seen to be out of step with his business backers and other leading Republicans - including the party's last president, George W. Bush.

Bush, along with Republican governors Scott Walker of Wisconsin, Rick Perry of Texas and Rick Scott of Florida were all participants in September's U.S.-China Investment Week to promote the United States as a natural home for billions of dollars of Chinese foreign direct investment (FDI) to create American jobs.

Jay Riskind, managing director of global projects at Beijing-based private equity firm, PiYi Investment, which helped organize the event, says concerted efforts in U.S. states and cities to secure Chinese investment provide the perfect counterpoint to campaign trail rhetoric.

"What we've seen from (individual) states is really more important than what we've heard from the campaign," Riskind said. "We have seen over and over again that states are very eager to facilitate direct investment promotion efforts."

WIGGLE ROOM

Wiggle room may be what Romney needs. Indeed, his plan to issue a Presidential order on his first day in office could create that room if he merely directs the U.S. Treasury to list China as a currency manipulator in its bi-annual report - effectively delaying action until its April 15 scheduled release.

His campaign literature says the Treasury will use the designation if China fails to bring its currency to fair value. Some academics argue the yuan is close to that point already, based a steady level of foreign exchange reserves, recent capital outflows and its current account balance relative to GDP.

One of Romney's main economic advisers and a top candidate for Treasury Secretary, Glenn Hubbard - a former senior Treasury official and chairman of the President's Council of Economic Advisers from 2001 to 2003 - has said he does not expect the United States and China to get into a trade war.

There's plenty at stake with analysts estimating China could spend $2 trillion globally on FDI in the next 10 years, a salivating proposition for many of the world's top economies struggling for growth and employment opportunities.

Research in September from consultancy Rhodium Group analyzed 600 Chinese direct investment transactions in the United States between 2000 and 2012 and concluded that U.S. subsidiaries of Chinese majority owned firms directly supported 27,000 jobs.

Assuming a steady investment trend, Rhodium reckons that number would jump to 200,000-400,000 by 2020.

Meanwhile surveys of U.S. businesses by the likes of the U.S.-China Business Council or the American Chamber of Commerce in China do not rate the value of the yuan particularly high on the list of corporate concerns. Fresh disruption to market access and other corporate complaints are bigger fears.

U.S. executives worried about a business backlash to a diplomatic row have a live example playing out before them in the shape of a festering territorial dispute between China and Japan, that flared in anti-Japanese violence in September.

Boycotts of Japanese goods by Chinese buyers has seen some firms, especially car makers, report sales sinking up to 40 percent in the aftermath of the most recent flare-up.

Kenneth Jarrett, Greater China Chairman of consulting firm APCO Worldwide and a former U.S. diplomat, most recently as consul general in Shanghai, says the currency manipulator label is not a China-Japan moment, but it would be damaging should a Romney administration apply it.

"It could be corrosive to the bilateral relationship. That's what I would see as the biggest danger," Jarrett said.

"The benefit of declaring the intent to (apply the label) at this stage is quite different to the benefit of doing so when you are sitting in the Oval Office," he said. "I'm not convinced he would do it when push came to shove."

(Reporting by Nick Edwards; additional reporting by Rachelle Younglai in WASHINGTON:; Editing by Neil Fullick)
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
This video is the best and most damning indictment of the Obama Administration's first four years you can find...all in his own words and done in about four minutes. it is also the best broad brush vision of America's bright future possible (and always there) if we simply return to her founding principles.


[video=youtube;gsa4uLmTw0M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsa4uLmTw0M[/video]
AMERICAN CONSERVATISM IS CALLING

Best closing arguement for the GOP and it is going viral.
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
This is it folks, in less than 10 hours we'll find out the result. In everyone's expert opinion, what do you think will happen?

For me I think Obama will won in the end with very narrow margin. But I hope Romney gets it.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Many news and polls shows Obama is winning in the early voting ballots by 2 to 1. I still think it will go down to the wire with Florida as the key swing state instead of Ohio.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Many news and polls shows Obama is winning in the early voting ballots by 2 to 1. I still think it will go down to the wire with Florida as the key swing state instead of Ohio.

that is to be expected... historically early ballots tend to be biased toward Democrats. I have to disagree with you on FL though.. I think OH is what matters. FL will likely go to Romney but OH is really a tossup. Romney has to win OH otherwise it will be extremely difficulty for him to win. If Romney loses both OH and FL than it's pretty much game over.

VA is also another indicator for this evening. They will be one of the first states to know the results and I think what you see happen in VA could very well be a good predictor of the next POTUS as well.
 

vesicles

Colonel
that is to be expected... historically early ballots tend to be biased toward Democrats. I have to disagree with you on FL though.. I think OH is what matters. FL will likely go to Romney but OH is really a tossup. Romney has to win OH otherwise it will be extremely difficulty for him to win. If Romney loses both OH and FL than it's pretty much game over.

VA is also another indicator for this evening. They will be one of the first states to know the results and I think what you see happen in VA could very well be a good predictor of the next POTUS as well.

Yes, Ohio is definitely a battle ground state, as well as Colorado, Virginia, Florida, Nevada, Iowa, Wisconsin, and New Hampshire.
 

vesicles

Colonel
Man, people are talking about companies giving away freebies and promos at voting stations. I didn't get any, not even a sticker...:mad: I love those "I voted" pins.
 
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