Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

Equation

Lieutenant General
You are verging on Racism here (whether by accident or not).:mad:
I am am sure there are a wealth of "innovators" in the west who have Chinese heritage.


Her name is actually GAMBIT a troll who comes across in every Chinese forum trying to cause trouble.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
You are verging on Racism here (whether by accident or not).:mad:
I am am sure there are a wealth of "innovators" in the west who have Chinese heritage.


Her name is actually GAMBIT a troll who comes across in every Chinese forum trying to cause trouble under a different name of course. But it doesn't take an English minor to tell the writing style and typical answers and twisted words to know it's the same person.
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
In other words, what have been designed by Soviet Union is a product of all the Republics. Thus, Russia does not have the capabilities to develop Soviet's aircraft and engines outside of the Soviet Union, which proves my point.



It does not matter. Today, Russia does not have the ability to design an equivalent of An-125 or An-225. In other words, possessing something and capable of designing that same thing are two completely different concepts. I rest my case. :rolleyes:



Whether or not the PAKFA is a new design does not alter the fact that the configuration is based on the configuration of Su-27, the latter being the work of the Soviet Union. We can see this because of the common features found on both Su-27 and PAKFA.


This is entirely irrelevant, as it doesn't reflect Russian's ability to design the same Soviet products. Possession of intellectual properties does not equate to capability of creating similar intellectual properties.



The 117 uses technologies from AL-31 and AL-41, both of the latter engines are product of the Soviet Union. In other words, Soviet Union did much of the work, whereas Russia integrated the two together. This is a completely different concept from creating an entirely new fighter aircraft engine as the American has done with the F119 or as the Chinese are doing with the WS-15.


The PAKFA uses external engine nacelles, straight air intakes, and variable-geometry inlets. These are the same features found on the Su-27. On top of that, the PAKFA also have stabilators extending pass the engine nozzles like the Su-27 does, while the sting extends further than the stabilators. These suggest the designers started with what they know -- the Su-27, a 4-th generation fighter which is a Soviet design, rather than starting from a brand new configuration liked the F-22.

Furthermore, while the PAKFA incoporates some stealth design, it is not a true 5-th generation fighter. The reason is the engine fan is completely exposed, resulting in strong radar reflection. Thus, the aircraft is not stealthy. The panel joints are not serrated, unlike F-22, F-35 or J-20.

As for the 117, the engine is based on technologies from AL-31 and AL-41 that are Soviet technologies. While it is true that Russia did a lot of work in integrating the best of the two engines, it is also true that much of the work was already done by the Soviet Union and that Russia did not design the 117 from a blank sheet of paper. Thus, what the Russia did with the 117 cannot be compared to what the Americans did with the F-119, nor be compared to what the Chinese are doing with the WS-15.

Good analysis, agree with most of what you said, however I just like to point out that just because Russia have not really design anything new since the Soviet Union, it does not mean they have lost the technical capability, the only reason they are lacking behind is simple, it has to do with money, or the lack of it. If they are flushed with funds, I'm sure they would have no problem getting back their energy and can do attitude from the Soviet Union times (military hardware production I mean, not the economy).

However, with this being said, Russia also faces a big problem with demographics, they are loosing population, and there was an article I read few years ago that it says most of current Russian military industrial employees are left over from the Soviet times, most of them have retired and there has been relatively few young talents entering into their industry, because there are just more attractive job opportunity elsewhere.

But like i said, if they have money, everything can be solved, they would attract more people, and come up with new deigns and everything.

Maybe the oil revenues can help, but who knows, because the oil money goes into the hand of relativity few rich individuals which does not really benefit the nation that much overall
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
You are verging on Racism here (whether by accident or not).:mad:
I am am sure there are a wealth of "innovators" in the west who have Chinese heritage.

I would be the first to agree with that idea. My post was criticism of group thinking and how it is the enemy of innovation
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
*Sigh*, the pace of creation for new technologies is indeed system dependent, but you also have to recognize the inherent time cost involved in the creation of new things. That time cost is not the same for the recreation of old ones, especially with component templates and concepts already in existence. Right now you are mixing up two different arguments. There is one argument for whether China can "innovate" at or beyond the level of other countries, but there is another as to whether China will be able to catch up to that level of technology. The latter proceeds at a naturally much quicker pace than the former. I'm not entirely sure China is systemically prepared to create completely new concepts and technologies faster than the West (though at the same time I do not think they're as unprepared as you are implying), but that is different from saying they are unable to close a technology gap.



What he's trying to say is that China doesn't have a system that's conducive to the "liquid networks" concept, which is one of many elements that can contribute to high levels of innovation. It's a complete sidestep from his previous argument, which is that China is incapable of closing a technology gap. He's conflating the two because he's treating the pace of all technological development as dependent on the same factors.

Interesting thinking on the problem of innovation
 

NikeX

Banned Idiot
So you admit it exist then? Does the Pershing even travel at the same speed as the Df-21D? Nope. Does the Pershing even has the same action and guidance system like the DF-21D when re-entering the atmosphere? Nope.

Check out the Pershing and see how it uses active terminal homing to locate and destroy its target. Regarding DF-21D no-one is sure how it performs its actions and what mode of guidance it uses as it has never been tested in reality against the target, a moving ship, that it is claimed to have been built for
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Here is a 3rd party data on patent filling by country and by corporations.

In 2007 there was 5455 patent application filed by China, which ranked #7 in the world
By 2011 there was 16406 patent application filed by China, which ranked #4 in the world, which is also a 33% growth from 2010, which is also the #1 growth in the world.

Now let's look at top 5 corporation filings
#1 ZTE CORPORATION - China
#2 PANASONIC CORPORATION - Japan
#3 HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.' LTD. - China
#4 SHARP KABUSHIKI KAISHA - Japan
#5 ROBERT BOSCH CORPORATION - Germany

So yeah, I can see China is lacking behind, but just like everything else about China, they are catching up fast. So yeah, go ahead and say China don't innovation, because you only have a few years before this argument go out of style, just like countless argument that have been said about China before. But don't worry NikeX, I'm sure there are will be plenty of new China bashing topic for you to take up a new cause on, you will not be disappointed.

May I recommend the Tibet issue? That always seems a favorite among the Hollywood sheeples.
 

70092

Junior Member
Guys, be relaxed, it is pretty easy to understand these trolls' mentality:

I have read a english article from guardian or whatever english newspaper (on their website), the author claimed the west always try to play down the capabilities of China or belittle China's achievements, and he thinks it is unfair.

I am not very interested in the article itself, but the average guys's responses for his articles catching my eyes: one of the guy there replied: Because the west is just act exactly like a 3 year old: believe if he can closed his eyes and dont see it, then the monster standing right in front of him wont exist.

On the surface, the accusation of China for copying everything has gone to the ridiculus level, to the degree that eventually they may accuse the we copied the ideas of breathing air, eating food, dring water or sleeping from them, which suggest the insecurity within has driven them to an insane level.

So guess what? its pretty obvious to see actually they are agree with you on basically everything here, thats why they are so insecure, and desperately trying to pretending as if thing were otherwise, just like a little boy deperately close his eyes when he sense something scraying coming, hehehe.

You can see you are just wasting your time on trying to presuade somebody who are in some serious denial mode, thats a hopeless case, since they cannot be reasoned, nor they are interested in facts (which I bet they have already known), they are here only for some mental reasons, which means professionals such as a mental displine doctor could be more experienced in handling such people,so lets leave such jobs to trained professionals, hehehe.
 
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mack8

Junior Member
Ignoring the (most likely) american trolls spewing their ultranationalist and racist crap around, is there anything new about SAC J-31, pics, info, anything ? Do you think they will show it at Zhuhai this year ?!
 
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