Chinese Citizens REVOLT in Wukan!!

NikeX

Banned Idiot
CPI has decreased to 4.9% in November and housing prices are down due to lower demands. Export is slowing down for now, but not gone forever. It'll reach back up again in early 2013 as China make trade deals all across the world, not just the developed countries alone. There is always a demand for some kind of products and there's always will be someone willing to make them.

No one has jumped to the conclusion that exports would be gone forever. However with the chief market of China, the EU, falling apart you will have to explain where China will be making up this export short fall. There is no evidence that by 2013 China will be back in the driver's seat with exports to the world.

And with pressure on China from other countries undercutting Chinese pricing on manufacturing goods, China faces some tough choices ahead. Its the new face of competition as lower priced manufacturers based in developing countries pressure China from below

Yes there will be demand for many kinds of products to be shipped to the world. The question is will China be the manufacturer of those products.

For foreign investors, a series of strikes in the last two months in mainland China has not been the only factor contributing to China’s manufacturing market losing its appeal.
Low wages and the renminbi (RMB) exchange rate were the main incentives for many foreign investors to originally invest in mainland China, but now those premises are being challenged. Many large corporations are considering withdrawing from China or relocating to other developing countries. Some will even move their production lines back to the West.

Japan’s auto makers are now strengthening their production operations in Thailand. Various companies now consider Thailand to be a production and export base for environmentally-friendly and energy-efficient “global strategic models.” They plan to open new plants or increase production lines in Thailand.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
There's a lot more to China than making products for foreign corporations that supposed rivals don't have. China has the infrastructure in place. Foreign corporations don't have to build a new factory in China because it's already there. Japan automakers have never plunged into China as much as their competitors. And here's another thing that is mightily important, China is the largest auto market in the world. Go ahead and build them somewhere else. They ain't going to be sold in China. It's not like they can complain since Chinese car companies have virtually no share in the majority of the developed world markets. And also foreign auto companies that build cars in China are for mostly Chinese customers.

Let's not forget slave labor. Go ahead and leave. What is the Chinese slave labor going to lose? It ain't money. Maybe the honor of working for superior beings? And lets not forget that the raise in wages in China just means they're moving up the ladder. You want to taunt that other developing countries are going take those jobs away from China? Maybe you should start worrying about the better paying jobs from the developed world now going to China.

There's an article I read recently where it use to be a college graduate in China always looked for a foreign company in China to work for. That's changing. Yeah maybe because if you look at China's richest, they aren't partnered with any foreigner, they're mostly domestic businesses.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
No one has jumped to the conclusion that exports would be gone forever. However with the chief market of China, the EU, falling apart you will have to explain where China will be making up this export short fall. There is no evidence that by 2013 China will be back in the driver's seat with exports to the world.

Another one of those inflated self importance. True the export to the west is declining but it doesn't completely ceased. Whatever downturn they have,China will open new market in South America, Middle east, South East Asia and Africa. In fact Chinese export to SEA has been growing 20 to 30%.per year
Another thing improvement in social security couple with rising wages has increased internal consumption by 17% for the last 5 or 6 years.

And with pressure on China from other countries undercutting Chinese pricing on manufacturing goods, China faces some tough choices ahead. Its the new face of competition as lower priced manufacturers based in developing countries pressure China from below Yes there will be demand for many kinds of products to be shipped to the world. The question is will China be the manufacturer of those products.[

Wages is only small part of the overall price . With superb infrastructure and decades long of experience in manufacturing, China is not in danger of loosing the World factory title anytime soon. In fact if you see the trend China is moving the value chain and export more of electrical machinery, construction machinery, office equipment

Japan’s auto makers are now strengthening their production operations in Thailand. Various companies now consider Thailand to be a production and export base for environmentally-friendly and energy-efficient “global strategic models.” They plan to open new plants or increase production lines in Thailand.

And forget about Thailand they don't have the infrastructure in place. A recent heavy rain proof it once for all. In fact Toyota is now will have to cut the profit estimate because their factory was inundated with water .
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Hitachi even fired all their worker and abandoned the factory completely Hitachi will leave Thailand for good
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Engineer

Major
Re: Chinese Daily Photos, Videos & News!!

plawolf, you've given a fine speech to the choir about how foreigners who criticise human rights injustices and call for political reform secretly hate China and don't want anything good for it. Congratulations.
Foreigners refer to people who don't live in China, and people don't live in China don't actually care about what's going on in China. They aren't benefited in anyway so there isn't any incentive for these people to do so. The foreigners only care about inflating their own egos by trying to make China into their own image. plawolf is simply calling out it by pointing at facts.

Let's look at the facts, democracy isn't perfect, but neither is a one party state. For example, how would it be easier to deal with the Euro crisis if the EU was a club of totalitarian despots or one-party states? It wouldn't be, and arguably it would be harder because all the leaders would be under even more pressure to "stand up" to the others or face rebellion at home.
"Easy" is a wrong word to use as it implies outcomes do not get affected by intervention. The more accurate word to use is "better handled".

China's track record in the handling of 1997 and 2008 financial crisis speaks for itself. China handled the two crisis better than democracies. Not only so, in both cases democracies depended on China to lessen the severity of the crisis. Now, this does not mean one-party system is perfect, just that China's system is working. However, it does show that democracy is not working as it consistently performs badly in face of tough situations. Your digression that one-party system is not perfect does not make democracy any less crappy.

With regard to China's handling of the 1997 financial crisis,
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has this to say:
The paper said:
However, the middle-kingdom beat the odds. Although the Asian flu effected China on both its external trade account and external capital account, nevertheless, like the Great Wall, China not only remained conspicuously insulated from the region-wide financial meltdown of unprecedented severity, the mighty dynamo fueling its economy missed only a few beats during the crisis and since.3 China’s ability to sustain a strong gross domestic product (GDP) growth performance of 8.8% in 1997 and 7.8% in 1998 and over 8.0% in 1999,4 continued success in attracting foreign direct investment (FDI)5 and in running healthy current account surpluses (roughly 3% in 1998-99), and maintaining the stability of its currency, the RMB (renminbi), in the face of plummeting currency devaluations and precipitous asset price deflation elsewhere in the region and beyond, is simply miraculous.6 In a region where China’s intentions are viewed with much suspicion, the PRC’s handling of the crisis has earned it much plaudits. Chuan Leekpai, the Prime Minister of Thailand has, on more than one occasion publicly thanked China for maintaining the value of the renminbi and for contributing US$1 billion to the IMF package for Thailand. Similarly, Singapore’s minister for information, the indefatigable George Yeo, while accusing Japan of abdicating its global responsibilities, noted that “the determination of the Chinese government not to devalue the renminbi in order not to destabilize Asia further will long be remembered”7.

This says a lot when compared to the democracies in Asia that failed outright.

I would say that Wukan is a fairly small problem by itself, but the CCP seems incapable of resolving it without threatening to criminalise the protesters and lock up their leaders. Beijing's first reaction was to censor news of it. That's sweeping it under the carpet instead of trying to do something about it.
Censoring news of it does not equate to sweeping it under the carpet. It will be handled similar to
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and many others, despite suppression of news.

You see, when China doesn't want something to be reported, the news merely gets omitted and the government then does something about the situation. This is in contrast to Western media, which revise facts and report them as news to make people feel like everything is still fine and nice. This is why you see the West blames Chinese as the culprit of the financial crisis for saving too much. This is why you see an increase of stories about "China is collapsing" when the West is heading for trouble.
 
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Mr T

Senior Member
Re: Chinese Daily Photos, Videos & News!!

Foreigners refer to people who don't live in China, and people don't live in China don't actually care about what's going on in China... plawolf is simply calling out it by pointing at facts.

That's nonsense. Do you realise how many people on this forum live outside China? I could be wrong, but I think plawolf is one of them.

Censoring news of it does not equate to sweeping it under the carpet. It will be handled similar to
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and many others, despite suppression of news.

Except that Dalian is a city with over 6 million inhabitants, whereas Wukan is a town of 20,000 people. Dalian wasn't surrounded by police and soldiers when the protest happened, nor did they flood Dalian and start beating the protesters up. It's a lot more difficult to harass people in a big city near to other population centres than it is in the countryside.

Also, do you remember Dongzhou? Sure, officials were initially punished. But it's not clear if any were jailed (as far as I can recall), whereas villagers were prosecuted and convicted. Rather than Dalian, it's quite possible what happens in Wukan will be more like Dongzhou, where it really was swept under the carpet.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Unfortunately, whatever the real truth is, you will never find out from the media who are too busy pushing their own agenda.

I think the BBC report said it all when they said in a matter of a couple of minutes in the same report, "Public Defiance is rare is China" and "There are thousands of so called Mass Incidents every year".

Wanting to have cake and eat it or what?

Whatever is happening in Wukan did not evolve in a vacuum and without any knowledge of the key personalities and the history of the dispute the story is meaningless. I am sure there are no black or white hats and it may come down to which local figure has not been included sufficiently in the food chain as the back handers flow down the line.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Unfortunately, whatever the real truth is, you will never find out from the media who are too busy pushing their own agenda.

Sampan, if the media were reporting the story so very badly, I'm sure the CCP would be authorising Xinhua and CCTV to have full reports on the "truth". The fact the central government is trying to clamp down on discussion indicates that they don't have an easy rejoinder to what's happening. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some details missing from reports, given the authorities' blockade and the simple fact that Wukan hasn't had resident reporters sitting there for the last several years in the hope there would be something to report.

However, I have heard nothing to disbelieve the story that the town's residents have had land taken away without compensation and had representatives harassed by officials and the police. It doesn't matter whether Xue Jinbo was murdered, if he was assaulted and died of his wounds, or he simply died whilst in custody. The authorities are apparently trying to starve a town of 20,000 people into submission, which is a crime against humanity by anyone's standards.

I'm always happy to read differing accounts, and I will have an interest in this matter next year and the year after, regardless of what comes to light. That said, I'm not going to disbelieve reports because there's just one story to read. If some people want to walk through life disbelieving everything they read and see, fearing that the Jews are running the world, or whatever, then that's their choice. But I'm not so jaded I can't trust myself to assess and sift information about issues like these.

I would ask people who automatically doubt reports like these whether they honestly distrust them or simply if they would prefer to believe they're false because they don't like the implications of these sorts of events and it upsets their view of the world.
 
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i.e.

Senior Member
The objective of Government in Beijing is not to "report the truth"
The objective of Government in Beijing is to keep the country in relative internal and external peace and ensure prosperity and wellfare for all.

if any one at all is to have the privilege of lying, the rulers of the State should be the persons; and they, in their dealings either with enemies or with their own citizens, may be allowed to lie for the public good. .
-SOCRATES
 

Obcession

Junior Member
However, I have heard nothing to disbelieve the story that the town's residents have had land taken away without compensation and had representatives harassed by officials and the police. It doesn't matter whether Xue Jinbo was murdered, if he was assaulted and died of his wounds, or he simply died whilst in custody. The authorities are apparently trying to starve a town of 20,000 people into submission, which is a crime against humanity by anyone's standards.

I've always been skeptical about the trying to starve the village into submission part. It's a village, which means most people are farmers, which means they will have stored food in the village (it's the winter, the harvest has just passed). Although one can argue the farmers have no land to farm given that the land has been sold off by the government. But then the question becomes how much land in proportion has been sold off, which we don't know (most reports indicate hundreds of hectares, but no approximation of how much land the villagers still have left). In the end, trying to starve out an agricultural village really doesn't make sense. I think the main reason of the blockade is rather for blocking external persons from contacting the villagers and preventing the villagers from marching out.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
The objective of Government in Beijing is not to "report the truth"

The objective of Government in Beijing is to keep the country in relative internal and external peace and ensure prosperity and wellfare for all.

The government should not be reporting any news. It should let the media get on with it. And when the government starts censoring news like this it just encourages local officials to crackdown more and more, because they think if Beijing is forced to choose it will prefer to keep things quiet than side with the victims and punish the wrongdoing officials.

if any one at all is to have the privilege of lying, the rulers of the State should be the persons; and they, in their dealings either with enemies or with their own citizens, may be allowed to lie for the public good.-SOCRATES

Except that the government isn't lying, it's stopping others from discussing what's happening. And we all know that sometimes government makes things worse by lying - SARS is just one example.

I've always been skeptical about the trying to starve the village into submission part. It's a village, which means most people are farmers, which means they will have stored food in the village (it's the winter, the harvest has just passed).

It's not a farming village, it's a fishing town. But the harbour has been blockaded.
 
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