Japan arrests Chinese fishing boat captains (Aug 2011)

the only dispute is if they're really within 200km or just right outside. it really seemed like japan had taken a serious and confident shift in antagonizing china for everything except economic. their incompetent government will regret it
 

nosh

Junior Member
the only dispute is if they're really within 200km or just right outside. it really seemed like japan had taken a serious and confident shift in antagonizing china for everything except economic. their incompetent government will regret it

I don't think Japanese government is incompetent. They obviously have done the calculation and concluded that as long as the US military is strong enough to protect them they can do whatever they want. I have to admit they are correct.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
I don't think Japanese government is incompetent. They obviously have done the calculation and concluded that as long as the US military is strong enough to protect them they can do whatever they want. I have to admit they are correct.


Thats Rubbish. If the Chinese fishing boats intruded into their recognised waters, then they have every right to detain them.If they weren't inside Japanese waters then one hell of an apology is owed.

Its not a question on whether one is concerned about antagonizing China, but protecting ones recognized EEZ zone
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
Thats Rubbish. If the Chinese fishing boats intruded into their recognised waters, then they have every right to detain them.If they weren't inside Japanese waters then one hell of an apology is owed.

Its not a question on whether one is concerned about antagonizing China, but protecting ones recognized EEZ zone

I suppose it depends if they were really fishing boats.

Remember the Impeccable within 75 km of Hainan? Yeah foreign militaries can conduct activities "in waters beyond the territorial sea of another state without prior notification or consent"
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Not if this was within Japan's EEZ.



So you're recognising the US as the world's policeman? Really?

I believe he was mocking the notion by using the typical terms the US and Japan consistently spout when similar incidents occur to China, and that the US is not the world's policeman due to overarching bias #irony.

Lulzy.
 

nosh

Junior Member
Thats Rubbish. If the Chinese fishing boats intruded into their recognised waters, then they have every right to detain them.If they weren't inside Japanese waters then one hell of an apology is owed.

Its not a question on whether one is concerned about antagonizing China, but protecting ones recognized EEZ zone

If it happens in undisputed water, what is the big deal?! Fishing intrusions happen all the time and nobody reports.

Now someone has called in Reuter and made a lot of noise worldwide. That is a calculated move, and is antagonizing China.
 

richardrli

New Member
Registered Member
"The area happens to be a pretty good fishing ground. We are treating this as a simple case of illegal fishing," a Coastguard official said.

Is it just me, or is the above far too direct and blunt to come out of the mouth of a typical Japanese? I mean the area happens to be a pretty good fishing ground part just seems totally out of place........
 

Red___Sword

Junior Member
I totally agree it is not a sovereignty dispute but saying it is 200 miles away from japan... or 173 NM away is really the farther end of the EEZ that Japan can claim and it seems like it overlaps with Korea's or Russia's as well.

Do you know if China is claiming the EEZ from the Qing border or the current one?

No, unfortunately with a grand gesture that the newly founded PRC "gifts" the last portion of Tumen river end (出海口) to the "brothers" of Koreans, it seals the doorway for China (for both PRC & ROC actualy, this is BS history to be mentioned, it originating under the chest-thumbing of Soviets, way back when ROC just founded) to have any defacto coast line among "Sea of Japan". This has been discussed in another thread somewhere of South China Sea security thread I believe. - When, may I get everyone's attention here? The NAMING of "Sea of Japan" took place exactly at that time, when China (Qing) is at her weakest and Japan just beat the crap out of czar and seize power over the whole said sea.

Not if this was within Japan's EEZ.

So you're recognising the US as the world's policeman? Really?

There were others already made interesting comparison for US's understanding of "who to mess", so I would like to say only this - the next door thread, South China Sea thread, people from free world state their demands that even the area is claimed sovereignty water of China, not merely EEZ, US should have the "right of sea" in despite...

Oh make no mistake, we do recognize US as the world's policeman all the time back when Internet getting invented... We just having problems with police brutality.


the only dispute is if they're really within 200km or just right outside. it really seemed like japan had taken a serious and confident shift in antagonizing china for everything except economic. their incompetent government will regret it

I suppose it depends if they were really fishing boats.

Remember the Impeccable within 75 km of Hainan? Yeah foreign militaries can conduct activities "in waters beyond the territorial sea of another state without prior notification or consent"

First, till now Chinese media has reported this incident but no "finger pointing" took place yet.

Second, I didn't read any Chinese official replys yet.

If I am not wrong, the "problem" if any, for the japanese authority to arrest Chinese fishers, is that while not necessary China claims any currently, japan have no jurisdiction over this place too. It's an overlapping EEZ wather remember? like hell japan can do the arresting at 175km far from its coast.

And Bltizo, that's the point I am talking about, the Impeccable operates at the nose of 75km away, right inside non-overlapping EEZ, for you-know-what-they-did business; this one, SK, Russian, japanese (maybe even NK) coastal guard can crush each other (if not firing, you know the russians...) and all make their own storey, in a sense. So why a sudden when Japan's nuclear reactors found new historycal high leaks and the "reconstruction" plan found itself in toilet, and when people having problems figure out "who stays who leaves" at japan's power houses struggle - in this sudden, japanese coastal guards made such a patriotic arrest, way beyond where they usually conducting their business...?

Sober people, who lost more? When China have a few (everyone is doing this) illegal fishers behind bars, while SK, NK, Russia having their EEZ seeing actions of japanese law and order. - My stone into the water.
 
No, unfortunately with a grand gesture that the newly founded PRC "gifts" the last portion of Tumen river end (出海口) to the "brothers" of Koreans, it seals the doorway for China (for both PRC & ROC actualy, this is BS history to be mentioned, it originating under the chest-thumbing of Soviets, way back when ROC just founded) to have any defacto coast line among "Sea of Japan". This has been discussed in another thread somewhere of South China Sea security thread I believe. - When, may I get everyone's attention here? The NAMING of "Sea of Japan" took place exactly at that time, when China (Qing) is at her weakest and Japan just beat the crap out of czar and seize power over the whole said sea.



There were others already made interesting comparison for US's understanding of "who to mess", so I would like to say only this - the next door thread, South China Sea thread, people from free world state their demands that even the area is claimed sovereignty water of China, not merely EEZ, US should have the "right of sea" in despite...

Oh make no mistake, we do recognize US as the world's policeman all the time back when Internet getting invented... We just having problems with police brutality.






First, till now Chinese media has reported this incident but no "finger pointing" took place yet.

Second, I didn't read any Chinese official replys yet.

If I am not wrong, the "problem" if any, for the japanese authority to arrest Chinese fishers, is that while not necessary China claims any currently, japan have no jurisdiction over this place too. It's an overlapping EEZ wather remember? like hell japan can do the arresting at 175km far from its coast.

And Bltizo, that's the point I am talking about, the Impeccable operates at the nose of 75km away, right inside non-overlapping EEZ, for you-know-what-they-did business; this one, SK, Russian, japanese (maybe even NK) coastal guard can crush each other (if not firing, you know the russians...) and all make their own storey, in a sense. So why a sudden when Japan's nuclear reactors found new historycal high leaks and the "reconstruction" plan found itself in toilet, and when people having problems figure out "who stays who leaves" at japan's power houses struggle - in this sudden, japanese coastal guards made such a patriotic arrest, way beyond where they usually conducting their business...?

Sober people, who lost more? When China have a few (everyone is doing this) illegal fishers behind bars, while SK, NK, Russia having their EEZ seeing actions of japanese law and order. - My stone into the water.

LOL POLICE BRUTALITY. Well said well said.

Actually what I was referring to was how a lot has changed in terms of Sino-Japanese bilateral relationship in these 2 years. Japan's cabinets, particularly border services, law enforcement, and ministry of defense, had taken a much stronger and vocal hostility towards PRC. One recent article came out with the defense minister accusing China of being assertive. This word, if I'm not mistaken, seemed to be the first time to be used by Japan towards China, and this word...we all know whose favorite vocabulary it is.

I did read another article referring to how Japan wants to pursue closer bilateral relationship with China only in terms of economic, while everything else is associating themselves closer with the US. Of course this would almost seem like a practical pursuit of objectives for Japan, but Tokyo is forgetting that whatever they do, they are still in the East, next to SK, NK, PRC, and Russia. Doing what they are doing will serve them no true long-term benefits when it pissed off its neighbors in the entire geopolitical region. Assuming with things moving along, all of Japan's neighbors (Russia, China, and depending on the Koreans if their conflicts were settled), will develop stronger cultural influence and reduce American's, and Japan will be the only one still hugging the US in the E.Asia region. Japan doesn't even seemed to realize, that by ruining its bilateral relationships with its neighbors by associating itself with the US, it is actually doing more harm and hindrance for whichever goals they want to achieve in the long-term, such as earning the trust and recognitions from Asian that Japan is a greater power; reviving its economy, etc.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
[
QUOTE=Red___Sword;157795]

If I am not wrong, the "problem" if any, for the japanese authority to arrest Chinese fishers, is that while not necessary China claims any currently, japan have no jurisdiction over this place too. It's an overlapping EEZ wather remember? like hell japan can do the arresting at 175km far from its coast.

As I said in a earler post and quoting Wiki

"When an overlap occurs, it is up to the states to delineate the actual maritime boundary.[1] Generally, any point within an overlapping area defaults to the nearest state.[2]"

So maybe the two other powers Korea and Russia have agreed that area is in Japans Jurisdiction.

Or

They have decided to default on this one, prefering to let Japan be the punching bag for China's angry Netizens.

And yes they can arrest/ and detain as far out as they like under certain circumstances , if the incident occured in their EEZ, .
Australian Customs vessels have pursued illegal toothfishing ships; the chase in the Viarsa incident went on for 7200 kilometers. (read below for full story)

There would also be many broke and sorry Indonesian fishermen who regret the day they crossed Australian marine patrols. with illegal fishing


The Viarsa Incident

On 7 August 2003, Australian Customs and Fisheries patrol vessel Southern Supporter spotted Viarsa 1 in Australian territorial waters near Heard Island. Suspecting the vessel of illegal fishing for toothfish, the Australians ordered the crew to stop. They fled, and this began a chase that would last for three weeks. The pair of vessels faced huge seas and numerous icebergs, and the rivalry was briefly suspended when the fishermen became lost in Antarctic sea ice and were directed to safety by the Australian sailors.

As the chase progressed across thousands of nautical miles of ocean, Southern Supporter was joined by the South African salvage tug John Ross and polar icebreaker SAS Agulhas and Falkland Islands-based British fisheries patrol boat Dorada. On August 28, after 3,900 nautical miles (7,200 km), the contingent, led by Australian Customs Officer Steve Duffy, surrounded Viarsa 1 2,000 nautical miles (4,000 km) south-west of Cape Town, South Africa.

Meanwhile a steaming party of Australian personnel flew to South Africa and boarded the oiler SAS Drakensberg, which met the other ships on September 3. Southern Supporter and Viarsa 1 arrived in Fremantle, Western Australia on October 3. Viarsa 1 captain Ricardo Mario Ribot Cabrera and his four shipmates posted bail and were ordered to remain close by and await legal proceedings. They found lodging at a hostel for merchant seamen.
Trial

Despite the 97 tonnes of toothfish found on board the vessel, representatives for the owners of Viarsa 1 were able to secure an acquittal by jury in November 2005. After two trials and two years, the seamen were free to return to their home countries.
 
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