attempts to obtain foreign combat types: Saab Draken, Mirage, Harrier, P-16 ....

johnqh said:

They were fairly interested in Mirage 2000, especially impressed by the FBW. However, eventually they decided not to. Money is one issue, another reason is that "certain domestic fighter offers similar performance" (loosely translated from Chinese Baguwen).

That domestic fighter is certainly J8II. That's another reason why I believe J8II is not as bad as many people thinks.

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J8B's raw performance was very good... the top speed was not limited by aerodynamics.

low speed it handled pretty bad.

I always wonder how it will perform stacking up against a late model F-4E. with a AGP-66 and may be a decent SAR AAM.
and a compound delta wing fitted in J-7E style with leading edge slats and WP-13B engines.

johnqh said:

There was a Baguwen about the Peace Pearl project which I found interesting.

... It is a Baguwen so we will never know the exact, but we can guess.

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Sorry ... but what's a "Baguwen" ???

Or what does an "Eight-Part Essay" has to to with that ??


Deino

They did get one harrier minus the Engine.
There are any number of reasons For such aquisitions ranging form too actual use too or subsystems or even use in developing countermeasures too specific threats.

Deino said:

Sorry ... but what's a "Baguwen" ???

Or what does an "Eight-Part Essay" has to to with that ??

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Deino

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Baguwen is the nickname that Chinese military forum goers gave to hard to understand official documents written by the Chinese military. A true military fan should be able to pick out the essential information from the florid proses.

I am thinking about starting a thread on some of the common military nicknames encountered on Chinese military forums. Even most normal Chinese can't understand a darn thing on forums because of them.

Deino said:

Yes, the Harrier-deal or its attempt is quilte well documented ... but regarding otherwise the secret Sino-US connections, I have that strange feeling since some time that esp. the US wouldn't like to be reminded (a situation that reminds me to former girl-friend I had ) ... the question is what else was under negotiations or even more already delivered besides the well known things like the Boeing B.737 + CFM-56 engines, F-16-radar for the J-8B-Peace Pearl (were they ever delivered ?), the Super-7 (why was never an official diagram published from Grumman ?).


I remember the rumours about SAC's intention to acquire the licence to manufacture the F-16 ... there were reports about a new "clean-sheet-design" under consideration with CAC as a follow-on to the S-7 ... was there maybe an US-powerplant considered for the J-10 ?? Who knows ?? ... and esp. what's true ?


Deino

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During the Super-7 episode Northrop Grumman offered to help China integrate a F-20 Tiger Shark style head and intakes onto a J-7 airframe. Needless to say the whole project was actually a fishing project by Pakistan to acquire more F-16s. Thnx to CAC and dedicated members of the Pakistanis military the FC-1 eventually became a reality but it was completely redesigned, bearing influence from neither the tiger shark nor the J-7.

Regarding SAC's intention to manufacture the F-16s... I read somewhere that China didn't have the right tools to build the F-16s during the 80s even if the U.S. provided kits. The military industry was way too backwards during that period. Besides China didn't have money to spend on the F-16. Deng wanted to prioritize economical development and in retrospect he made a very good decision. One only needs to look at how Russia was willing to offer complete tech transfer of the Su-27 to China during the 90s due to the collapsing economy. Money can't do everything in the military world but you can't do anything without money.

i.e. said:

without an enviornmental system (read: A/C) the pilot would have frozen to death at 50000 ft.

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I am talking about AC system for avionics. With western 3G fighters, there are obvious AC intakes and exhausts.

On a side note, there are some interesting stories related to that.

For example, when testing the avionics for certain new aircraft (J10? H6K?) on the ground, since the fighter is on the ground, the AC system is not running, and avionics overheats.

Some professor lead a team to solve this issue. While his graduate students are trying hard to figure out how to run the on-plane AC system, the professor simply said "why not run the AC off the airplane?" Then they had a simple solution - using the maintenance truck to run the AC system, simply hook it up to the aircraft's AC pipes.

siegecrossbow said:

Baguwen is the nickname that Chinese military forum goers gave to hard to understand official documents written by the Chinese military. A true military fan should be able to pick out the essential information from the florid proses.

I am thinking about starting a thread on some of the common military nicknames encountered on Chinese military forums. Even most normal Chinese can't understand a darn thing on forums because of them.

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Please do so. It will be really quite a sight.

johnqh said:

I am talking about AC system for avionics. With western 3G fighters, there are obvious AC intakes and exhausts.

On a side note, there are some interesting stories related to that.

For example, when testing the avionics for certain new aircraft (J10? H6K?) on the ground, since the fighter is on the ground, the AC system is not running, and avionics overheats.

Some professor lead a team to solve this issue. While his graduate students are trying hard to figure out how to run the on-plane AC system, the professor simply said "why not run the AC off the airplane?" Then they had a simple solution - using the maintenance truck to run the AC system, simply hook it up to the aircraft's AC pipes.

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duh.

The avionics and eniornmental ac usualy runs off the same system.

also that story i think reflect more on the incompetence of the test team. than of the a.c/

H6K has APU, and J-10 usually is running on ground cart when engine is off.