Should china go for more J-8 or concerate on new desings like FC-1??

tphuang

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adeptitus said:
The only "firm" numbers that have been published is Pakistan's desire to obtain 150 FC-1 aircraft. There are no firm information on how many the PLAAF would take.

From PLAAF's point of view, they probably much rather have J-10's. But since Pakistan offered to eat half of the R&D costs on the FC-1, it's not a bad deal. Just think of it as China's version of ROCAF IDF.

=================

As for the "per copy" cost debate on FC-1 vs. J-8, the estimated costs will differ depending on number of aircraft produced and total R&D expense. To generalize, the more planes you build, the lower per unit cost.

The J-8 served its purpose until the introduction of newer aircraft. But it has been an export failure.
the official word is 250 FC-1s for plaaf and 150 for paf. But with the new changes to FC-1, who knows. I figure the upgraded J-8 is taking part of the plaaf market away from FC-1, that's for sure. As for J-8, it's just like every other SAC plane that has absolutely zero export success.
 

Chairman Hu

Banned Idiot
what is the friggin point of FC-1s in the PLAAF, the Jian-10 is heavier and more powerful, the plane is even in service and a single/double seated version already built, and IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, the Jian-10 can fire anti-ship missiles, I mean, that can take place of the FC-1 already, the PLAN needs something cheap and effective, the FC-1 is their best bet, or... the Jian-10 can take over... OR a new version of the Jian-11...

The FC-1 IS light and useful, so that can provide the needed requirements of the navy, get backed by some future Jian-11s, that would be great!

Just try using the Jian-8 to effectively use the SD-10 and fire anti-ship missiles... NO! the FC-1 is much better, plus if the Jian-8 IS 20 mil a piece, the FC-1 will save China 5 mil a piece, and isnt upgrading the 27SK to 27SKM only 5 mil a piece? there you go, problem solved... some what... o.0
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Chairman Hu said:
what is the friggin point of FC-1s in the PLAAF, the Jian-10 is heavier and more powerful, the plane is even in service and a single/double seated version already built, and IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, the Jian-10 can fire anti-ship missiles, I mean, that can take place of the FC-1 already, the PLAN needs something cheap and effective, the FC-1 is their best bet, or... the Jian-10 can take over... OR a new version of the Jian-11...

The FC-1 IS light and useful, so that can provide the needed requirements of the navy, get backed by some future Jian-11s, that would be great!

Just try using the Jian-8 to effectively use the SD-10 and fire anti-ship missiles... NO! the FC-1 is much better, plus if the Jian-8 IS 20 mil a piece, the FC-1 will save China 5 mil a piece, and isnt upgrading the 27SK to 27SKM only 5 mil a piece? there you go, problem solved... some what... o.0

chinas's not at a lack for money $$$:D
it needs to concentrate on saving funds for much more avanced weapons and projects that will rival the u.s or europe. the entire concept of a "cheap and huge military" is completely cold war ideology. moder doctrines reflect a need for smaller, more advanced forces.
 

swimmerXC

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Chairman Hu said:
what is the friggin point of FC-1s in the PLAAF, the Jian-10 is heavier and more powerful, the plane is even in service and a single/double seated version already built, and IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, the Jian-10 can fire anti-ship missiles, I mean, that can take place of the FC-1 already, the PLAN needs something cheap and effective, the FC-1 is their best bet, or... the Jian-10 can take over... OR a new version of the Jian-11...

The FC-1 IS light and useful, so that can provide the needed requirements of the navy, get backed by some future Jian-11s, that would be great!

Just try using the Jian-8 to effectively use the SD-10 and fire anti-ship missiles... NO! the FC-1 is much better, plus if the Jian-8 IS 20 mil a piece, the FC-1 will save China 5 mil a piece, and isnt upgrading the 27SK to 27SKM only 5 mil a piece? there you go, problem solved... some what... o.0

o dear, i think you should run for the chairman of china... then again i'll probably stop you by telling everyone your love of everything japanese :nono:

ok back to topic...
they already have the flankers doing the anti-ship job, whats the point of using something expensive and good like the J-10 for ground attack? might as well get the FC-1 to do the dirty work and the J-10's to act as air cover
 

Chairman Hu

Banned Idiot
swimmerXC said:
o dear, i think you should run for the chairman of china... then again i'll probably stop you by telling everyone your love of everything japanese :nono:

wtf?! uhhh WTF!?

true on the FC-1 doing the dirty work part... but you have 24 MKK2s doing th naval work, and the JH-7B doing the attack work, why use it in the airforce, better in the navy
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
swimmerXC said:
o dear, i think you should run for the chairman of china... then again i'll probably stop you by telling everyone your love of everything japanese :nono:

ok back to topic...
they already have the flankers doing the anti-ship job, whats the point of using something expensive and good like the J-10 for ground attack? might as well get the FC-1 to do the dirty work and the J-10's to act as air cover

dirty work? please specify.

24 mkk2 flankers really isnt alot, and a flanker is more expensive than a j-10 anyhow. i will agree with u on using the j-10 primarily as an air-fighter, but why does china need fc-1? there is not a single tyask that the fc-1 can perform that cannot be done in an equal or better manner by another plane.
i just dont get y u ppl think a plane designed for cheap export can actually have a role in the plaaf.

baseline: i would rather spend 1 billion bucks to buy 30 j-10 rtather than 40 fc-1.
 

chakos

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Depends on the mission really..

As far as replacing some (not all... that would be way too expensive) of the current batch of J-6/7 leftovers from the 60's then i would go the Fc-1. It would go a long way to countering Indias upgraded Mig-21 Bisons as well as Taiwans older fighters.

As far as i am concerned and i am not picking sides here at all, the Indians did a brilliant job of their Mig-21 upgrades and really have no need whatsoever for the LCA anyway.

They have a better range, an advanced radar and as well as that can carry 2 AA-12's and 2 AA-11's. In my eyes this makes them a fantastic light fighter, possibly the best in the region following the advance versions of the F-16 and the Mig-29smt, but then again these fighters are more a medium size fighter than a true light fighter.

The Fc-1 should be given the ability to launch the AA-12 or the SD-10 as it will be able to easily carry 2 short range and 4 medium range missiles (or vice versa) in combat and therefore make it a very capable little aircraft. (As long as they get the avionics fit correct) as the Fc-1 is a very well designed warplane. It is what the Mig-21 and the F-5E should have been, and what the F-20 would have been had it not been cancelled.

For the intercept mission though i would definatelly be considering the J-8 but only if it had more powerful and economic engines so it would have a mutch better rate of climb as well as a large combat radius and time on station.

If that was not achievable i would be buying the licence to the Mig-31 and getting rid of the J-8 altogether.

People forget that the Mig-31 was the one plane the U.S. truly feared in the cold war. More so than the Su-27 or the Mig-29. It has an awesome range, long time on station, a trully effective intercept radar as well as an ability to carry 6 (usually 4 though) AA-9 Amos Long range air to air missiles. This missile has a Mach 4.5 top speed, a 160km range and is able to engage all current aircraft, helicopters and cruise missiles from any altitute. As well as this the Mig-31 can carry AA-12, AA-11 and AA-8 medium and short range missiles.

The other important factor is that the Russians are willing to sell them.. And for relativelly cheaply...

So i say stop wasting time with an inferior competitor of the Phantom thats based on a Mig-19 and start investing money in real effective interceptors.

Id rather 5 squadrons of Mig-31's than 20 squadrons of J-8's of any variant.:coffee:
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
chakos said:
Depends on the mission really..

As far as replacing some (not all... that would be way too expensive) of the current batch of J-6/7 leftovers from the 60's then i would go the Fc-1. It would go a long way to countering Indias upgraded Mig-21 Bisons as well as Taiwans older fighters.

As far as i am concerned and i am not picking sides here at all, the Indians did a brilliant job of their Mig-21 upgrades and really have no need whatsoever for the LCA anyway.

They have a better range, an advanced radar and as well as that can carry 2 AA-12's and 2 AA-11's. In my eyes this makes them a fantastic light fighter, possibly the best in the region following the advance versions of the F-16 and the Mig-29smt, but then again these fighters are more a medium size fighter than a true light fighter.

The Fc-1 should be given the ability to launch the AA-12 or the SD-10 as it will be able to easily carry 2 short range and 4 medium range missiles (or vice versa) in combat and therefore make it a very capable little aircraft. (As long as they get the avionics fit correct) as the Fc-1 is a very well designed warplane. It is what the Mig-21 and the F-5E should have been, and what the F-20 would have been had it not been cancelled.

For the intercept mission though i would definatelly be considering the J-8 but only if it had more powerful and economic engines so it would have a mutch better rate of climb as well as a large combat radius and time on station.

If that was not achievable i would be buying the licence to the Mig-31 and getting rid of the J-8 altogether.

People forget that the Mig-31 was the one plane the U.S. truly feared in the cold war. More so than the Su-27 or the Mig-29. It has an awesome range, long time on station, a trully effective intercept radar as well as an ability to carry 6 (usually 4 though) AA-9 Amos Long range air to air missiles. This missile has a Mach 4.5 top speed, a 160km range and is able to engage all current aircraft, helicopters and cruise missiles from any altitute. As well as this the Mig-31 can carry AA-12, AA-11 and AA-8 medium and short range missiles.

The other important factor is that the Russians are willing to sell them.. And for relativelly cheaply...

So i say stop wasting time with an inferior competitor of the Phantom thats based on a Mig-19 and start investing money in real effective interceptors.

Id rather 5 squadrons of Mig-31's than 20 squadrons of J-8's of any variant.:coffee:

fc-1 is already fitted with sd-10. as for mig-31, it is russia's ace in the hole. itsn ot for sale. if it was, india, china, iran,..would all want it.
 
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