The Civil War in Libya

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Junior Member
The plot deepens>

Germany pulls out NATO operations in Mediterranean: Defense Ministry

BERLIN, March 22 (Xinhua) -- The German Defense Ministry said on Tuesday that Germany has pulled out of NATO operations in the Mediterranean.

A spokesman of the ministry told DPA, the local news agency, that Germany has regained the command of two frigates and two other ships with a total of 550 crew in that area.

Some 60 to 70 German troops who have joined in NATO airborne surveillance operations in the Mediterranean might also be included in this withdrawal action, he said.

Those affected ships and troops have been involved in three NATO operations in the Mediterranean, including the anti-terror mission Active Endeavour.

Earlier on Thursday, German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle called for a full-scale oil and gas embargo against Libya, but ruled out again that Germany will join in the military actions against Libya, saying Germany was determined not to become a military partner in this operation.

Last week Germany also abstained in a UN Security Council vote to permit "all necessary measures," including air strikes, to impose a no-fly zone and protect civilians in Libya.
Also:- Congressman Kucinich: Obama could be impeached over Libya

Kucinich claims this due to Obama's failure to consult with congress before taking the US into Libya.

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kwaigonegin

Colonel
China is always abstaining on EVERYTHING. They need to start picking sides instead of always trying to play the political card and be "neutral". If there's one thing I learn is this world is never neutral. Neutral is some cases means wholesale massacre of civilians such as in Rwanda and other examples throughout history.
 

MwRYum

Major
So the UN-sanctioned ops does more than just deny the sky for Libyan AF, but that doesn't mean the rebels get any decisive advantage, unless they get themselves more organized and have better gears than they've now.

As for Gaddafi, can't help but I gotta call him a coward for using human shield...but of course, in times of war, even the lowest of means is "allowed" as long as it works, I reckon.
 

pugachev_diver

Banned Idiot
So the UN-sanctioned ops does more than just deny the sky for Libyan AF, but that doesn't mean the rebels get any decisive advantage, unless they get themselves more organized and have better gears than they've now.

As for Gaddafi, can't help but I gotta call him a coward for using human shield...but of course, in times of war, even the lowest of means is "allowed" as long as it works, I reckon.

This is no brainer.... If he shows his face constantly, he would be taken out instantly, either by American special forces or Tomahawks.
 

solarz

Brigadier
As for Gaddafi, can't help but I gotta call him a coward for using human shield...but of course, in times of war, even the lowest of means is "allowed" as long as it works, I reckon.

It's easy to call someone a coward when you've got total advantage over him. Gaddafi does what he needs to do to survive, and really, since the UN resolution is to "protect civilians", it's a very effective move.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
So the UN-sanctioned ops does more than just deny the sky for Libyan AF, but that doesn't mean the rebels get any decisive advantage, unless they get themselves more organized and have better gears than they've now.

As for Gaddafi, can't help but I gotta call him a coward for using human shield...but of course, in times of war, even the lowest of means is "allowed" as long as it works, I reckon.

I was under the impression that the people gathering around him were acting as voluntary human shields? Can't really fault gaddafi for that, though it is playing into his interests
 

noone536

Junior Member
anyone saw the picture of the downed f15? i saw the sidewinder 102 still intact i wonder if the chinese will come in and buy it for studying purpose......
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
AWESOME AWESOME video of C deG departing Toulon and Air wing embark for operations in Libya. Rafales, Super Es, Hawkeyes!! MUST WATCH!

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Nice video.Speaking as someone who has gotten underway on CVs dozens of times and seen thousands of hours of flight ops... What's the big deal??:rolleyes: Just yankin' your chain.. Nice video!
 

Roger604

Senior Member
First off we had the revolt in Benghazi which spread. The rebels were flying the old royalist flag and this may have suggested to Gadaffi that his Saudi enemies may have had a hand in it. We all scoffed when Gadaffi condemned the rebels as Al-Qaeda, as the rantings of a madman, but if this was indeed an insult against the House of Saud, then its meaning becomes clearer.

On the ground there was chaos as some military units defected to the rebels and loyal units were driven back. In addition many units seemed simply to have sat on the fence waiting for clear signs of the outcome before committing themselves.

In Tripoli, Gadaffi launched a diplomatic initiative to those countries with major oil interests in Libya. In exchange no doubt for major concessions, Gadaffi negotiates his survival, principally down to the fact that he has been a reliable supplier. Word gets out , and those units that were sitting on the fence, come back into action and the rebel advance is soon turned into a route.

The House of Saud however is not done. The Saudis live in two worlds; The Arab and the Islamic, and they want to rule both of them. Gadaffi is to them an upstart who has challenged their rule of the Arabic world, just as the Iranians are there sectarian opponents in the Islamic. King Adbullah sees an opportunity to humiliate an upstart and so seizes it.

The first mention of a No Fly Zone comes from “call me Dave” during his visit to the Gulf. The call takes everyone by surprise and is plainly not welcome. The Call is however supported by the Saudi Dominated Arab League. Initially it looks a dead duck, with three none permanent UNSC members, India , Brazil and South Africa, ruling it out straight away during a conference in Delhi.

The Saudi’s however seem unprepared to take no for an answer and lobby all the hostile UNSC countries heavily, using Oil and Sovereign wealth as leverage. The Saudis know that the Western nations cannot be seen to be voting against such a resolution, so they concentrate on the likely vetoers to get them to abstain.

The US getting wind of this is furious and so toughens up the Resolution to make it utterly unpalatable to China and Russia, looking to force a veto.

For whatever reason though, the resolution is passed and the West has new headache handed to them. The US then grabs control of the early phase and unleashes an almighty missile bombardment. This is to my mind to embarrass the Saudi’s who primarily will have only wanted to humiliate Gadaffi and make him crawl to them for protection and recognise their leadership. Instead the US is acting in a way that will inflame the passions of the Arab Street and make the Saudi’s appear complicit….
That is 100% right, Sampan!

The US keeps meddling in Middle East affairs in the same ways the old European Empires did. It got caught abruptly in the middle of an intra-Arab power struggle that, at first, did not have the involvement of contesting superpowers. Then the US was forced by Saudi pressure to take sides by making war on Gaddafi.

China and Russia didn't try hard to stop the US from doing so because now this means Gaddafi is "their man" and if he defeats the rebels (NATO's proxy) then China and Russia is defeating NATO in its own backyard.

This kind of victory could lead to pro-Western regimes in the Middle East falling. The US no longer looks like its in control of the Middle East when its former friendly governments are deposed one-by-one and the US is stuck fighting conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya and perhaps Iran in the future. This is necessary to keep Middle Eastern governments in power that will support the US dollar system by trading oil only in dollars.

One day there will be a sudden run on commodities and nobody will want the US dollar anymore because it's perceived as worthless currency issued by a declining power bankrupted by a long and expanding war against the Islamic World, similar to the crusades. Eventually, people all around the world will demand to buy their oil in RMB and Euro, not just US dollar.

When that happens, RMB and Euro will become major reserve currencies and the US economy will be hit hard. GDP per capita may suddenly shrink by 50% or more to around the level of Argentina.
 
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