Cambodian-Thai border started gunfire

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Well Cambodia already has about 200 T-55s if I remember correctly (I looked it up yesterday when I saw that this engagement happened). They really should at least have some upgraded T-72s or something like that. Even one brigade of them could form the spearhead of offensive action.
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
Well Cambodia already has about 200 T-55s if I remember correctly (I looked it up yesterday when I saw that this engagement happened). They really should at least have some upgraded T-72s or something like that. Even one brigade of them could form the spearhead of offensive action.

I see. That's interesting information. Never paid much attention to Cambodia's military capabilities before.

Nonetheless, I don't think Cambodia would want to start a war with Thailand, or any significant offensive action for that matter. Politically, it would be too aggressive and probably draw international condemnation. Militarily, I doubt their air force will be able to match the RTAF. Which means that any MBTs are likely to provide target practise.

Anyway, despite a ceasefire, it looks like there were more fighting today:

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Renewed Thai-Cambodian border fighting
Posted: 06 February 2011 2034 hrs

PHNOM PENH - Fresh clashes broke out on the Thai-Cambodian border Sunday around a disputed temple a day after both sides agreed a ceasefire, a Cambodian military commander told AFP.

"We are fighting now, they started firing at us first," the source, who declined to be named, said, referring to Thai troops across the border.

The latest outbreak of violence, which erupted at 6.35pm local time (1135 GMT), followed an agreement to halt fighting between the neighbouring nations on Saturday.

Earlier clashes left at least five people dead in the area around the 11th-century Preah Vihear temple, which is claimed by both sides.

- AFP/ir

ASEAN is under pressure to resolve this since both countries are members of ASEAN. Unfortunately, I doubt that ASEAN will be able to do much.
 

CardSharp

New Member
In military, you're right! I can't see the Cambodian side has what more than AK-47 and B-40 (RPG-7). The worst thing is the soldiers are never trained before joining the army. They just arm them with a gun and then go to the battle field. The Thai side is reported to move their heavy weapon near the border, and get their fighter jet ready for war. Oh my god, some years earlier, the government destroy some 200 manpad missiles according to uncle Sam's request. What are they going to use to fight against these birds once they come?

Apparently the Cambodian paratroops are armed with the QBZ-97.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Apparently the Cambodian paratroops are armed with the QBZ-97.

They are armed with a small number of Type-97. In fact, we never see those guns except a few photos. In the first clash, Cambodian troops were armed with very old AK-47 and B-40 which led to inferiority to the Thai troops. The then Commander-in-Chief were removed for the responsibility that he never renew troops' armament. Short after the event, Cambodia imported a large amount of armament (rumor to be 60 containers) from China including the Type-81 (here we understand that they choose the Type-81 for it shares the 7.62 with AK-47) and some wheeled APC. We understand that if they buy stuff from China, they probably get a good bargain and credit, and maybe at some point in the future, China might clear the debt and they don't have to pay a single cent. But this time, Cambodia decided to go with Russian stuff, what do we guess? First, China no longer make T-55 equivalent stuff which Cambodian troops are familiar with. Second, China allows no more credit to them. Fighters? I think Cambodia doesn't have a single air worthy fighter which is ready for combat at anytime letting alone matching the RTAF fighters.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
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Cambodian soldiers at Preah Vihear. This troop doesn't look regular to me though I haven't identified them yet. But please identify their weapons, the assault rifle looks like type-81 but type type-81 should have a long muzzle, huh? and the machine gun looks like Russian Kalashnikov PK / PKS / PKM / PKMS machine gun.
 

MwRYum

Major
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Cambodian soldiers at Preah Vihear. This troop doesn't look regular to me though I haven't identified them yet. But please identify their weapons, the assault rifle looks like type-81 but type type-81 should have a long muzzle, huh? and the machine gun looks like Russian Kalashnikov PK / PKS / PKM / PKMS machine gun.

Those are Type 56-2 assault rifles.

And this formation has an interesting mix of uniform and gear too...US woodland pattern, British style pattern, ACU...of course all those can be supplied by the Chinese.

As for mediating, right now ASEAN is onto it, and perhaps remain so unless Indonesia can't do it then they'd look to China for mediation.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Note the guy on the second right of the first pix. That looks like a type-97 to me. For this troop, I guess they are the bodyguard troop of the prime minister (Correct me if I'm wrong). However, this troop are rather well-equipped.
 

johnboy

New Member
If you've ever been to Cambodia, you would know that the government would have a hard time conducting armored warfare on the border with Thailand. Basically, there is only one paved highway in that entire part of the country, and it was built in large part to ferry tourists overland from Thailand to Angkor. If that road were interdicted, you could never get enough fuel into the area to efficiently support even a company of tanks. If this thing escalated, the Thais would enjoy enormous logistical advantages. That, and not the tank inventory, would decide everything.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the Cambodians actually have, but the Thais use M-48A5s and M-60A3s. A T-55 with the latest improvements (and there are a TON of upgrade packages out there) wouldn't be so bad compared with the former. The T-55 is obsolete, but so is the M-48.
 

Spartan95

Junior Member
Well, both sides have decided to bring the issue to UN:

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Cambodia, Thailand to face UN over border dispute
Posted: 09 February 2011 2042 hrs

PHNOM PENH : Diplomatic efforts to resolve a border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia gained momentum on Wednesday, with the two neighbours set to address the UN Security Council next week.

Thailand also raised the possibility of the first face-to-face talks between the two countries' foreign ministers since the clashes erupted on Friday with a volley of shelling in disputed jungle surrounding a 900-year-old temple.

Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya will brief members of the Security Council on Monday on the rift, an aide said, adding that a meeting with his Cambodian opposite number Hor Namhong on the sidelines was "possible".

In Phnom Penh, Prime Minister Hun Sen said his top diplomat was preparing documents for the UN meeting.

At least eight people were killed in four days of cross-border violence, which forced thousands of families to flee on both sides of the frontier.

Each side blames the other for starting the fighting but both have held fire since the last skirmish early Monday.

The 11th-century Preah Vihear temple has been a source of contention between Thailand and Cambodia since it was granted UN World Heritage status in July 2008.

The World Court ruled in 1962 that the clifftop structure belonged to Cambodia but both countries claim ownership of a 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) surrounding area.

Shrapnel and artillery fire appear to have scarred Preah Vihear, although no structural damage is visible, according to an AFP photographer who visited the site.

The world heritage body UNESCO said it was planning a mission to the area "as soon as possible" to assess the state of the temple, the most celebrated example of ancient Khmer architecture outside of Cambodia's Angkor Wat.

UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon spoke with both prime ministers on Tuesday and said he again offered UN help to negotiate a deal to end the clashes.

Thailand has said it sees no need for third-party mediation, while Cambodia has insisted on it.

"I told Ban Ki-moon these are not armed clashes. This is a war," Hun Sen said in a speech in the Cambodian capital.

"This war will be resolved through the mechanism of the United Nations."

He said Cambodia was no longer interested in bilateral meetings. "But we will continue to negotiate peacefully" with the presence of a third party, he added.

With a lull in violence, the UN Security Council has held back from formal talks on the unrest to give time to a mediation bid by Indonesia, chair of the ASEAN regional bloc, diplomats in New York said.

Marty Natalegawa, foreign minister of Indonesia - the current ASEAN chair - held talks with his counterparts from both countries earlier this week and according to Hun Sen will also attend the New York meeting.

It is unclear exactly what triggered the latest violence, but diplomatic frictions have grown since late December when seven Thais, including one lawmaker, were arrested by Cambodia near the border for illegal entry.

Both Thailand and Cambodia have written to the UN Security Council twice about the border unrest.

Cambodia has called for a UN buffer force to be put on the border and for an urgent Security Council meeting on the clashes, while Bangkok has accused Phnom Penh of seeking the "internationalisation" of the conflict.

- AFP/ms
 

johnboy

New Member
Another comment: in the broader sense, I doubt either side really this to turn into even an unofficial border war, let alone something bigger. Cambodia is desperately weak vis-a-vis Thailand. Within Thailand, the tourism industry would take a dim view of anything that closed that overland border crossing - I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't already bitching to whoever does their lobbying for them. Beyond that, posturing appeals to the yellow shirts, but a lengthy fracas would probably be unpopular and prove detrimental to them in the long run.

As for the UN, the issue is going to the Security Council, which doesn't really mean the original court ruling is being addressed. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if a pile of pressure didn't come down on Cambodia to work out some sort of sharing agreement, just to make the mess go away and keep the Thais somewhat happy. When it comes to the UN, my cynicism has no limits.
 
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