J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

Status
Not open for further replies.

delft

Brigadier
Re: J-20 matches F-22 in front-profile and may exceed F-22 in side-profile stealth

j20f22.jpg

Left-half of picture is China's J-20. Right half is U.S. F-22.
(Note the J-20 air-inlet has been better integrated into the fuselage than the F-22's gap between the air-inlet and fuselage.)

I have two observations. Firstly, as shown in the spliced-photo above, I believe that I have been proven correct that the J-20 matches the F-22's frontal profile in stealth design.

50211b93-619e-482a-b9a9-aeff0a7e3333.jpg

Above: Picture of sleek J-20 with small tailfins.
Below: Picture of sleek F-22 with large tailfins.

Secondly, the F-22 may have tailfins that are significantly larger than the J-20. Given the increased surface area to reflect radar, this raises the possibility that the F-22 may have a higher side-profile stealth signature than the J-20 and is more vulnerable to bi-static or multistatic radar systems.

Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the photographs.

It seems to me that the scale of J-20 and F-22 in the front view is not the same. The distance from the top of the fuselage to the tip of the tail plane should be larger in F-22 than J-20, so F-22 should be larger, and have an even worse signature.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Re: China's indigenous jet engines, including for J-20, perform within reasonable nor

The engine has two layer of pedals. The internal ones seals the nozzle, controls the size of the airflow. It is a critical component of the engine.

The external ones are for aerodynamics purpose only. It hides the control elements for the internal pedals. We often see F-15 photos with the external pedals removed.

So it is quite easy and safe to create your own external pedals. It won't change the engine performance.

I really wish the J-20 flew with Chinese engines. However, let me repeat - the black and silver nozzles are the same engine (same length, same diameter). The color and shape of the external pedals don't mean a thing.

Between AL-31F and WS-10, I would have to say they are AL-31F due to the pedal count.

However, we cannot remove the slight possibility that they are a different variant of WS-10 - either a modified WS-10A, specifically for J-20, or WS-10G.
I think WS-10 series is not China's only indigenous engine. CAC doesn't like SAC or Shenyang Liming, so they got their own Chengdu factory to reverse-engineer AL-31F while extending its service life. Now China makes its own AL-31F variants, which are used in J-10's, J-10B prototype and J-20 prototype. That's why China's never buys AL-31F from Russia anymore, but seems to have an unlimited supply of them.

The silver nozzle engine is probably a Chinese indigenous variant of the AL-31F for infrared reduction. The petals are longer and more slender on the AL-31F than on the WS-10. So these silver ones are more consistent with AL-31F as mentioned before in this thread.

There's nothing wrong with WS-10, it's currently used on J-11B's. It's just that for political reasons CAC doesn't want it.
 

andyhugfan

Banned Idiot
Seems that this thread is dying a bit. All availiable info and discussions has been posted allready. No extra flights in the next few weeks or so?
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Come on guys ... just help me out a bit ! :confused: ... maybe I missed a bit.

All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.

I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.

Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??

Deino
 

Centrist

Junior Member
Come on guys ... just help me out a bit ! :confused: ... maybe I missed a bit.

All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.

I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.

Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??

Deino

We are just speculating Deino, there is no proof. I think we are all desperately trying to explain why AL-31s are being used on China's latest and greatest. So far no answer seems to suffice.
 

dingyibvs

Junior Member
We are just speculating Deino, there is no proof. I think we are all desperately trying to explain why AL-31s are being used on China's latest and greatest. So far no answer seems to suffice.

I think it's pretty sensible. The AL-31 has been a proven engine for many years, while the WS-10 has only just recently been equipped on the J-11B. Designing a plane has to take the powerplant into consideration, so you can't just go "hey, the WS-10's ready now, let's swap it in by next month." The J-20 prototype must have been designed to fit the AL-31 for years now. I'm almost certain that the REAL first flight was conducted with the AL-31. If the public first flight was using the WS-1x, then the real first flight must've occurred many months ago to allow for time to fitting a new engine.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Who wants to buy a J-20 scale model? :D

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


apparently the term fy js (without the space in between) triggers some sort of filter and gets changed into ****.... so yes it's
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
js.cn without the space. I'll look into this problem.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
it is also possible, that the WS-15 are for final productions, so there are 2 versions. one is AL-31F, and one is WS-10G or something. or maybe even WS-10A and WS-10G(the one that looks like AL-31F) are the ones currently available. Maybe WS-15 and WS-10G or AL-31F shares certain similarities, therefore one of the of platform is for experimental purposes with the new engine technology that aims to resemble WS-15 in the future. After they've gotten everything ready, I'm quite sure the final production models will be using the WS-15, and since the current is a prototype, it's almost quite certain we will see some further changes that accomodates the WS-15. another thing is, it is possible the airframes of both prototypes are different in some ways, such as length and weight and engine accomodation. we should keep our eyes open n watch further
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Come on guys ... just help me out a bit ! :confused: ... maybe I missed a bit.

All I remember is a report that CAC managed to extend the service life ... that doesn't mean that they developed and produce an indigenous AL-31F.

I'm sure - with all the Russian complaints about the Flanker copies - there would have been an outcry in the Russian public ... so far I didn't read anything.

Sorry, but can anyone show me that article, report or source PLAESE !??

Deino
According to the Jane's article, they already extended the service life of AL-31F by a large factor. Presumably this means they replaced key components like the turbine blades. It seems they know this engine in and out so well that it's not difficult to produce a replica or improved variant.

The Russians probably won't make an outcry because China is not selling the AL-31F to other countries. It will probably take Russians years to come to realize China has already reverse engineered AL-31F.

It's pretty obvious to me the fact that SAC is using FWS10 while CAC is using AL-31F is no mere coincidence. This is all politics! There are too many AL-31F variants running around (not matching ) confirming the existence of "indigenous AL-31F."
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top