JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Let us count the number of planes that are 500 km near the border... For the rest I honestly think you are biassed.

And planes cannot be easily moved around when needed? If you have said airbases, it might have made some sense. But counting peacetime deployment is simply silly when trying to assess wartime conditions.

As for the rest, well care to point out where this alleged bias lie?
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
India just cannot move everything to the Pakistani border. And with both nations having AWACS and los of ground radars (and as long as they do not have stealth) you hardly have suprises. Pakistan has a depth of 80km to maximum of a few hundred km. Every plane is in war...

I think you use ceterus paribus in a simple way. Just looking at quatity is not realistic. The Indians do not have a impossible airforce for Pakistan. Surely not simple but making MKI a god is a bit biassed to me.
 

flyboy2008

New Member
You guys are expanding the scope of the discussion when the initial question was, can Pakistan's "superior" pilot skills mitigate the "superior" equipment of an aggressor nation such as India?

Just how important is the pilot's skill compared to superior weapons?

Say the Indian pilots are average, but have superior planes(MKI), and the Pakistanis have above average pilots but use inferior planes(JF17), and the numbers are even.

In such a limited scenario, which side is likely to win?
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
guys, let's not continue down this road again. Keep this a JF-17 thread rather than one about whether IAF vs PAF. You can argue here for days and not get anywhere.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
From what I've heard the reason why JF-17 didn't fly at Farnborough is because PLA wanted it to premier at the Zhuhai airshow in November this year. We ought to be able to get some get video footages and analyze the performance of the plane then.
 

Londo Molari

Junior Member
Honestly I find this news report hard to believe.

The PAF personnel at Farnborough were quoted in Air Forces Monthly as saying that they simply did not have enough time to prepare a proper aerial demonstration, which is why they had a static display. So now their airshow aerial debut will be in Zhuhai.

The news report twisted this to say that China told them to not fly in Farnborough.

PAF Personnel said in the same article that WS-13 has been fitted on a JF-17 but was probably 5 years away from being inducted.

The report changed this to mean WS-13 is ready.

The lower thrust-to-weight ratio of JF-17, and world reknown maneuverability of F-16 also make me doubt the claims that JF-17's consistently beat F-16's in dogfights. In PAF, only the very best and most experienced pilots get to fly F-16s. I don't know if that is true for JF-17's.

So this news report could be all based on rumors.
 

Lion

Senior Member
Honestly I find this news report hard to believe.

The PAF personnel at Farnborough were quoted in Air Forces Monthly as saying that they simply did not have enough time to prepare a proper aerial demonstration, which is why they had a static display. So now their airshow aerial debut will be in Zhuhai.

The news report twisted this to say that China told them to not fly in Farnborough.

PAF Personnel said in the same article that WS-13 has been fitted on a JF-17 but was probably 5 years away from being inducted.

The report changed this to mean WS-13 is ready.

The lower thrust-to-weight ratio of JF-17, and world reknown maneuverability of F-16 also make me doubt the claims that JF-17's consistently beat F-16's in dogfights. In PAF, only the very best and most experienced pilots get to fly F-16s. I don't know if that is true for JF-17's.

So this news report could be all based on rumors.

The person who make all this comment is from the official spokesman from CVIC and who is also overall in charge of FC-1 in the airshow.

Despite FC-1 is 50/50 between Pakistan and China. From design ground up to final product. Everything is done by China. China is still has the overall final say in decision making of FC-1.

As for the WS-13, ready on FC-1 doesn't mean its ready for mass production or final production certification. But so far from his comment, they sounds very confident everything is going smoothly to ensure Russia RD-93 cut off will not affect FC-1 sales. Plus, the painful lesson of WS-10A definitely help WS-13 not to repeat the same mistake. Just like FC-1 design time is much much shorter than J-10A due to the experience gain from previous.
 
Last edited:

taimikhan

New Member
Honestly I find this news report hard to believe.

The PAF personnel at Farnborough were quoted in Air Forces Monthly as saying that they simply did not have enough time to prepare a proper aerial demonstration, which is why they had a static display. So now their airshow aerial debut will be in Zhuhai.

The news report twisted this to say that China told them to not fly in Farnborough.

PAF Personnel said in the same article that WS-13 has been fitted on a JF-17 but was probably 5 years away from being inducted.

The report changed this to mean WS-13 is ready.

The lower thrust-to-weight ratio of JF-17, and world reknown maneuverability of F-16 also make me doubt the claims that JF-17's consistently beat F-16's in dogfights. In PAF, only the very best and most experienced pilots get to fly F-16s. I don't know if that is true for JF-17's.

So this news report could be all based on rumors.

China was one of the factors for not doing the aerial display at the FIA as being a joint product of China & Pakistan, China would have liked the first aerial display in China just like the J-10 had in 2008, and the other reasons of not fully prepared and the insurance and other issues are also valid, but they could have been solved if they really had wanted to fly it at FIA. These were all the factors which contributed in the final decision of flying it or not.

The WS-13 being 5 years away figure was given by the incharge of the JF-17 PAC Kamra, an Air Vice Marshall, and this 5 years was the worst case scenario figure, another official of PAC junior to the AVM said it could be ready within or by 2 years time period. So worst case scenario is 5 years, while if all goes well as per planned, we may start seeing WS-13 equipped FC-1s & JF-17s in 2-3 years time.

JF-17s beating PAF F-16 A/B in dog fights is not a new thing and they are doing it not just once or twice, rather multiple times whenever they have been pitted against each other in simulated dog fights and JF-17 has so far the upper hand. Do remember the pilots flying the JF-17s are from the F-16s, the best of what PAF has are flying the JF-17s, thus it can give you an idea what is the capability of the JF-17s and the pilots flying JF-17s when had been given an option to revert back to F-16 program, refused to do so and opted to stay with the JF-17s.

So JF-17s beating F-16 A/Bs in dog fights is pretty much true.

And as per a member of a Pakistani defence forum who visited the JF-17s at FIA and talked to the pilots, the thrust to weight ratio of JF-17 is above then 1, 1.1 i believe was the figure quoted, compared to the previously known of less then 1. The thrust of RD-93s in current JF-17s is more then what has been quoted so far, but still classified and as per inside sources from the same source, Chinese friends had some role in this too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top