The sinking of South Korean Corvette Cheonan

SampanViking

SampanViking

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Yes, a little uncalled for.

TO remain objective however, does anyone have a schematic showing the propulsion of any other heavy SUT especially the AEG made designs used by the South Korean 209's?
 
planeman

planeman

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SUT torpedo, note the shrouded prop with control surfaces behind the props.
torpedo-sut-i-ok.jpg


Not exact ROK version (?) but essentially similar:
9434582780c64c68b1f741832424fdaco.jpg



And the CHT-02D with no shroud and control surfaces in front of the props. Note also the asymmetrical fin/control surface arrangement.
x610o.jpg

610xem.jpg



South Korea also use K731 White Shark torpedo, also with shrouded prop:
1261543971-97.jpg



The people who want to imply it's not a CHT-02D torpedo need to do more research to show what torpedo it is.
 
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mobydog

Junior Member
Planeman,

What made you think that the shredded CHT-02D has no shroud ? Any pics in it's entirety ? Are we informed where that torpedo was found ? NO, it was simply presented and "see the marking are the same as the ones found years ago". Nothing more. We are not even 100% sure, if it's that torpedo that sink the SK ship, either than SK says so.

Normally, in such incident, a map with the location of where it was found in relation to the wreck are usually presented. just like where the two wreck was found. It did not happened this time.

In any case, how do you explain presence of the german metallic debris and chemical residue. NK industry isn't that great to be able to produce metallurgy and compound, being able to be identified as german. Those foreign experts involved in the investigation of the wreck, identified the trace elements. While that corroded torpedo, we knew little about their involvement.

There were regiments of UN foreign inspectors before iraq was invaded, yet, we were all made to believe they have nukes and could deploy in 45mins. Or those advanced super-notes that were found originated from Japan, yet we were all made to think that it was NK, who couldn't even forge the won properly.

If it was indeed a "Friendly fire", the present SK adminstration is finished. I wouldn't be surprised that they would go "self preservation" mode. US was in that joint exercise, and the many south Korean isn't very keen with US militray presence. Going along with it is in US interest.

But what's in it for NK ? Nothing. Why is NK even demanding that they want access to the evidence ? Instead of cliaming victory like in the past, not only they denying it, they want to prove themselve innocent. Something is really off.
 
rhino123

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Actually the entire investigation was a little bias from the beginning. Since this case involved NK (as the accused), shouldn't NK at least have a team of investigators also in the investigating team. Also China and Russia should also be allowed to do the investigation. And not just US, Japan, SK and Australia (which by the way, all shows to be strong allies of US).

Not that I have anything against US or SK, but to be fair, NK, China and Russia should also be allowed into the investigation. Or what ever we hear is just one sided.
 
P

Pointblank

Senior Member
rhino123 said:
Actually the entire investigation was a little bias from the beginning. Since this case involved NK (as the accused), shouldn't NK at least have a team of investigators also in the investigating team. Also China and Russia should also be allowed to do the investigation. And not just US, Japan, SK and Australia (which by the way, all shows to be strong allies of US).

Not that I have anything against US or SK, but to be fair, NK, China and Russia should also be allowed into the investigation. Or what ever we hear is just one sided.
Click to expand...

Sweden and Canada were on the investigating team. And furthermore, Russia and China don't have much in the way of recent Naval Architectural expertise, especially in the area of damage investigation. The USN is one of the best navies in the world in the field of damage control (and this is honed from decades of experience and training).

mobydog said:
Planeman,

What made you think that the shredded CHT-02D has no shroud ? Any pics in it's entirety ? Are we informed where that torpedo was found ? NO, it was simply presented and "see the marking are the same as the ones found years ago". Nothing more. We are not even 100% sure, if it's that torpedo that sink the SK ship, either than SK says so.

Normally, in such incident, a map with the location of where it was found in relation to the wreck are usually presented. just like where the two wreck was found. It did not happened this time.

In any case, how do you explain presence of the german metallic debris and chemical residue. NK industry isn't that great to be able to produce metallurgy and compound, being able to be identified as german. Those foreign experts involved in the investigation of the wreck, identified the trace elements. While that corroded torpedo, we knew little about their involvement.

There were regiments of UN foreign inspectors before iraq was invaded, yet, we were all made to believe they have nukes and could deploy in 45mins. Or those advanced super-notes that were found originated from Japan, yet we were all made to think that it was NK, who couldn't even forge the won properly.

If it was indeed a "Friendly fire", the present SK adminstration is finished. I wouldn't be surprised that they would go "self preservation" mode. US was in that joint exercise, and the many south Korean isn't very keen with US militray presence. Going along with it is in US interest.

But what's in it for NK ? Nothing. Why is NK even demanding that they want access to the evidence ? Instead of cliaming victory like in the past, not only they denying it, they want to prove themselve innocent. Something is really off.
Click to expand...

The torpedo had Korean markings and these markings, plus the metallurgy matched torpedoes that were salvaged from North Korea in 2003. Furthermore, North Korea could have imported the explosives and the metal used in the torpedo through a front company setup in another country. North Korea has an extensive history of using front companies to import goods despite being under sanctions.
 
rhino123

rhino123

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Pointblank said:
Sweden and Canada were on the investigating team. And furthermore, Russia and China don't have much in the way of recent Naval Architectural expertise, especially in the area of damage investigation. The USN is one of the best navies in the world in the field of damage control (and this is honed from decades of experience and training).
Click to expand...

Sorry... but I am not saying that US and her allies should be excluded from the investigating team. I am saying that NK, Russia and China should be included in the investigating team. At the very least, formal invitation should be extended to these nations and if they rejected the invitation, then it is alright. However, I am not seeing that invitation, they simply exclude the three nations.

As to Naval Architectural expertise, I know that US had the very best... but many times, it is not technical expertise that play the most important parts. Sometime it is international politics too.
 
Spartan95

Spartan95

Junior Member
Read a news article that RoK is bringing this case to the UN. Apparrently, this incident (if it is indeed an attack by DPRK) may be in breach of the existing armistice between the 2 Koreas that have been in place since the end of the Korean War.

Here's a link from yesterday's (23 May) news:

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As international anger grows over the attack, Lee, in an address to the nation, will also outline his planned appeal to the UN Security Council over the sinking of the corvette.
Click to expand...

There should be more updated news about RoK bringing the case to the UN soon.
 
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mobydog

Junior Member
Pointblank said:
The torpedo had Korean markings and these markings, plus the metallurgy matched torpedoes that were salvaged from North Korea in 2003. Furthermore, North Korea could have imported the explosives and the metal used in the torpedo through a front company setup in another country. North Korea has an extensive history of using front companies to import goods despite being under sanctions.
Click to expand...
The German metallurgy and trace elements were found in the two wrecks. Can you provide Links to the cliam that the german Metallurgy and compound matched the 2003 NK torpedo ? Where is this 2003 NK torpedo ?

Wouldn't it make sense to provide and show both torpedos together to show that the markings are identical ? So far, I don't see any reference to compare, than "Just believe that".
 
M

mobydog

Junior Member
Spartan95 said:
Read a news article that RoK is bringing this case to the UN. Apparrently, this incident (if it is indeed an attack by DPRK) may be in breach of the existing armistice between the 2 Koreas that have been in place since the end of the Korean War.

Here's a link from yesterday's (23 May) news:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!




There should be more updated news about RoK bringing the case to the UN soon.
Click to expand...
In 10th Nov last year, both north South Naval vessels exchanged fire in the area of the NLL, reportedly causing serious damage to a North Korean patrol ship and 5 Nk was killed. Where's the breach of the existing armistice then ?
 
SampanViking

SampanViking

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mobydog said:
The German metallurgy and trace elements were found in the two wrecks. Can you provide Links to the cliam that the german Metallurgy and compound matched the 2003 NK torpedo ? Where is this 2003 NK torpedo ?

Wouldn't it make sense to provide and show both torpedos together to show that the markings are identical ? So far, I don't see any reference to compare, than "Just believe that".
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

I looked at the picture of the wreckage compared to the NK torpedo schematic and to be honest, I would not say it was a perfect match (but then its difficult to say from just one angle and not being able to see what is design and what is damage.

But simply providing the schematic of one Torpedo is hardly a solid base for presenting an argument. We should be shown the schematics of all other major Torpedo models being used by SK and the US so that any major differences between them and the NK design are obvious.

I wonder though if the drive shaft of a Heavy Torpedo is one of those things that is pretty much identical across a majority of major designs (all based on successful German WW2 technology)?

Otherwise, considering the state of the wreckage, I think its amazing that the North Korean paint mark is still so fresh! One would have assumed that if a covert Black Op were being planned and conducted by NK, that they would have removed any identifying markings first.

Something here don't smell right and it hasn't smelt right from the start.I react badly to the feeling that someone, somewhere, is trying to treat me like a schmuk!
 
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