JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

flyboy2008

New Member
Seems like PAF has no choice, but to stick with Chinese avionics after French postponement. Crobato was wrong then to believe PAF always favoured Chinese tech for next batch. As French decision has highlighted they were looking at French avionics, but politics or money stop deal.
Naturally, PAF would demand better avionics for second batch, Chinese companies should meet that demand, hopefully these companies can offer better tech then what the French were offering.


I'm just wondering, why would Pakistan naturally demand better avionics for the second batch?

What sort of package was the French offering? Was it AESA?

What if China refused to offer AESA or something much better? Then what?
 

Lion

Senior Member
Seems like PAF has no choice, but to stick with Chinese avionics after French postponement. Crobato was wrong then to believe PAF always favoured Chinese tech for next batch. As French decision has highlighted they were looking at French avionics, but politics or money stop deal.
Naturally, PAF would demand better avionics for second batch, Chinese companies should meet that demand, hopefully these companies can offer better tech then what the French were offering.

No, Crobato claimed Pakistan just use French deal to pressure Chinese in giving better things. He never claim PAF favour Chinese tech but just that western avionic install on JF-17 will never happen. China always provide the best value for money package and move things faster. As what he predicted, all this negotiation is just hot air. Even with politic or not, JF-17 will always fit with Chinese avionic and Chinese BVRAAM weapon.

I'm just wondering, why would Pakistan naturally demand better avionics for the second batch?

What sort of package was the French offering? Was it AESA?

What if China refused to offer AESA or something much better? Then what?

Pakistan now just need to accept whatever the Chinese offer even they don't like it. Its the best solution for them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Londo Molari

Junior Member
There are still tonnes of options. The Italians are always willing. And the news about the French deal crashing is just rumors.

But I don't think Pakistan ever did want French stuff on the JF-17. Maybe it is a negotiation tactic? Or maybe they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket? Because KLJ-7 is pretty much the same as RC-400, and SD-10 should be a better BVR missile than MICA.
 
Last edited:

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
I think Chinese avionics and equipment on the JF-17 also will have an effect on the FC-1 adoption in China to replace the J-7s. Given the constant military activity in Pakistan, it should show the maturity of the FC-1's design and capabilities in all Chinese setup similar to what hypothetically the PLAAF would use.
 

Lion

Senior Member
France says arms sale to Pakistan held up


PARIS, April 2 (Reuters) - France's plan to sell 1.2 billion euro ($1.6 billion) worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said on Friday.

Stocks | Global Markets

Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles -- the first section of a 6 billion euro contract -- under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan's finances.

"It's a deal that's not ready from the Pakistani side," the source said, without giving further details. "For now, the state of the dossier doesn't allow us to carry on with it."

A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales (TCFP.PA) and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment.

France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said.

In February, MBDA said it planned to upgrade India's Mirage 2000 fighters and was looking to expand in India. [ID:nSGE61F0C3]

Le Monde said talks over that upgrade also played a role in the decision. (Reporting by Sophie Hardach and Yann Le Guernigou; editing by Philippa

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
I'm just wondering, why would Pakistan naturally demand better avionics for the second batch?

What sort of package was the French offering? Was it AESA?

What if China refused to offer AESA or something much better? Then what?

I under impression French were offering RC 400. I dont think Chinese companies will find it to difficult to exceed that. Read my comment to Lion, explains this furthur.

No, Crobato claimed Pakistan just use French deal to pressure Chinese in giving better things. He never claim PAF favour Chinese tech but just that western avionic install on JF-17 will never happen. China always provide the best value for money package and move things faster. As what he predicted, all this negotiation is just hot air. Even with politic or not, JF-17 will always fit with Chinese avionic and Chinese BVRAAM weapon.



Pakistan now just need to accept whatever the Chinese offer even they don't like it. Its the best solution for them.

Chinese companies if they want to be successful in international market will have to respond to customer concerns/demands. So you think PAF will just accept original KLJ-7s, dont you expected a more advanced version will be atleast offered for next batch? Or maybe a newer product, which we dont know about yet, no point discussing possible AESA options.

There are still tonnes of options. The Italians are always willing. And the news about the French deal crashing is just rumors.

But I don't think Pakistan ever did want French stuff on the JF-17. Maybe it is a negotiation tactic? Or maybe they don't want to put all their eggs in one basket? Because KLJ-7 is pretty much the same as RC-400, and SD-10 should be a better BVR missile than MICA.

If source is real, then PAF were interested. However we dont know what PAF officials are thinking. Maybe they using French card, who knows.
 

taimikhan

New Member
Well as for KLJ-7 radar, the specifications quoted by the Chinese manufacturer are not what is installed in JF-17. Meaning the radar may be KLJ-7 but its specifications are much better compared to the original specifications that we have seen.

Even insider sources quote the radar to be something else, as officially since its induction the specifications about the radar have not been released, neither its true type.

And PAF is very happy with its performance. JF-17 has so far exceeded all of the parameters set at the start of the project. Its performing better then what it was expected of it.

As for French deal, well its not that PAF is not happy with Chinese systems, issue is PAF does not wants to put all its eggs in one basket. It wants Western and Chinese systems work side by side, so that it knows which one has which short coming and can improve it further upon and also in case of war, all the aircraft don't get neutralized in case a ECM is used by the enemy.

Also, PAF wants to keep the western options open, so that Chinese also put up something superior or atleast equal and PAF can get the best out of them.

Chinese option is much cheaper, friendlier and technology wise supportable compared to the western ones, but to keep up with what is happening in the modern world, PAF will evaluate both the western and chinese, whenever it gets opportunity.

And French are as usual upto their habits, to secure the best option money wise.

For now they are interested in the Indian deals, once that is done, then we may see further steps in the on hold deal.

And also do keep in mind, the current Pakistani ruler is very close to the French, he has a notorious history of taking kickbacks in the Agosta-90B deal, and also tried his best to get M2Ks for PAF but off course his kickbacks were the real motivation.

Even news is around that in the recent JF-17 deal which was signed with China, he tried for his share.

Our bad luck :(
 

flyboy2008

New Member
Dont' worry guys...China will never abandon you guys. You guys are very important to China. Believe me. #1 important ally in the world. That's the reality, and it is unshakeable.

Pakistan is being very wise to try and get western avionics, engines. Sure, why not? It would also help China access these tech.

But I think China is on her way to matching the West. It's just matter of time.

JF17 is beautiful looking bird. I have wallpaper of Pakistan JF17 flying. I'm glad JF17 is successful. :)
 

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
The reason for Pakistan in trying to get hold of western engines is a sound one... First of all, Pakistan is flying lots of westerns birds - F16, Mirage and stuff like that. Thus the engineers and technicians are very familiar with the western engines and how to maintain them. Thus it is logical for the Pakistan to try to secure the western engines for their JF-17.

However given that the chinese engines for this class of fighters might be on par with whatever the Westerns are willing to offer and sell, I guess it would be easier for Pakistan to stick with the Chinese's.
 

Lion

Senior Member
The reason for Pakistan in trying to get hold of western engines is a sound one... First of all, Pakistan is flying lots of westerns birds - F16, Mirage and stuff like that. Thus the engineers and technicians are very familiar with the western engines and how to maintain them. Thus it is logical for the Pakistan to try to secure the western engines for their JF-17.

However given that the chinese engines for this class of fighters might be on par with whatever the Westerns are willing to offer and sell, I guess it would be easier for Pakistan to stick with the Chinese's.

Western engine are expensive and subjected to lots of regulation.

It is not logical to seek western engines. With cases of France radar sales to Pakistan suspend. Do u think Pakistan wanted to get their hands burn again?

Chinese engine are starting to mature and advance already.

It will have a more friendly price tag and no political string.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top