JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
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MastanKhan
Junior Member
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
Engineer,
Please notice the difference between the posters name and my name---thankyou---.
Does it embarrass you a tad bit or no---you came out swinging at me. It would be nice to offer an apology.
Lion,
My goodman, why would you get sick. I just talked about the capability of kamra---I was not trying to feed you something to give you food poisioning.
There is a misunderstanding somewhere---we are not here to prove---we are only telling you what we can do---if you want to believe us---that is fine---if you don't, it is not a problem.
Our defence equipment and its manufacturing capabilities have some secrecy behind it---we don't need to put this information just to please your palate.
Engineer,
Please notice the difference between the posters name and my name---thankyou---.
Does it embarrass you a tad bit or no---you came out swinging at me. It would be nice to offer an apology.
Lion,
My goodman, why would you get sick. I just talked about the capability of kamra---I was not trying to feed you something to give you food poisioning.
There is a misunderstanding somewhere---we are not here to prove---we are only telling you what we can do---if you want to believe us---that is fine---if you don't, it is not a problem.
Our defence equipment and its manufacturing capabilities have some secrecy behind it---we don't need to put this information just to please your palate.
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
Actually MastanKhan, I, for one, is very interested in Pakistan's capability. I have no doubt or whatsoever in her ability due to the fact that we are actually seeing the ballistic missiles flies and Pakistan with very little or no assistance at but still managed to carry on and achieved very high end nuclear system.
However, as to aerospace technology... pardon me for my limited knowledge (which may seemed very offensive to Pakistan), but have you guys actually design and manufactured your own aircrafts or even do massive modification to existing airframe?
I am really interested to see more information on Pakistan that I find preciously few infor in the net. Anything that could be shown to the public... of course I am not expecting to see things that are secret (which I doubt any would find).
And lets come back to the JF-17 thread... As many had posted before, and I am saying it again, it is not the capability of Pakistan to modify the plane to accept other engine, it is the need to do it.
As mentioned in my very detailed post previously, we are looking at huge number of possibilities and their inter-relationship. So in summary, I would still like to post this question... Is it really necessary to do the modification?
Actually MastanKhan, I, for one, is very interested in Pakistan's capability. I have no doubt or whatsoever in her ability due to the fact that we are actually seeing the ballistic missiles flies and Pakistan with very little or no assistance at but still managed to carry on and achieved very high end nuclear system.
However, as to aerospace technology... pardon me for my limited knowledge (which may seemed very offensive to Pakistan), but have you guys actually design and manufactured your own aircrafts or even do massive modification to existing airframe?
I am really interested to see more information on Pakistan that I find preciously few infor in the net. Anything that could be shown to the public... of course I am not expecting to see things that are secret (which I doubt any would find).
And lets come back to the JF-17 thread... As many had posted before, and I am saying it again, it is not the capability of Pakistan to modify the plane to accept other engine, it is the need to do it.
As mentioned in my very detailed post previously, we are looking at huge number of possibilities and their inter-relationship. So in summary, I would still like to post this question... Is it really necessary to do the modification?
flyboy2008
New Member
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
I have nothing more to say other than emboldening his words.
I have nothing more to say other than emboldening his words.
Engineer
Major
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
You and him are arguing for the samething, and making the same mistakes of thinking an engine change would be simple. In fact, one of your first post in this thread was a defense for that very quote which I have made. So yes, I purposely quoted him for your consumption.
No, and no. Up until now, there is still zero proof on your claims. All there have been are just pure speculation and assumption. For example "the practise of the 60's and before that, when fighter planes used to be built around the engine" is your assumption with no source backing you up. You haven't even name the western engine that you claimed might go into the JF-17. You should apologize to us for wasting our time with your fantasies.
Zahid
Junior Member
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
You are right - I am not an expert, I do not pretend to be an expert, I have never assumed that I know too much (hence this being my 30th post in three and a half years). But it makes me uncomfortable to see that I am being quoted out of context. Notice that I had said if people can talk about WS13 (which is rumored to be a good match for JF17 - read the appropriate thread) being fit for JF17, then why can another engine not be made to fit? Of course I assumed that anyone reading this would know that I mean engines of this class only. I do not assume to know all the issues involved in an engine change. But being an engineer myself, I know that it can be done though at a cost. I have merely remarked that if the benefit of getting an alternative engine is perceived to be more than the cost involved then it shall be done. I had explained this sensitivity more fully, but that post was deleted much to my regret.
I do not understand why you have taken such umbrage at qualified comments. and that a certain "arrogance" is being indirectly ascribed to me and my fellow Pakistanis. I have gone back to check all my posts in the last week or so, and I can not find anything that could be construed or extrapolated to be insulting to China or Chinese products, or Chinese design, or anything like that. I have seen that we have shown a certain confidence that our Chinese friends are sensitive to our needs. This confidence is based on the history of relations between China and Pakistan. Young ones may not know the extent of friendship but I would only remark that it is not a one-way traffic of benefits for Pakistan. There is much else in which our Chinese friends who know would graciously acknowledge Pakistan's help. We Pakistanis have highest degree of respect for our Chinese friends, and I hate to see that little disagreements are being magnified, blown out of proportion, and all sort of bruhaha is being raised about something which is essentially not really that important - it is ONLY a future possibility. If it happens, good. If it does not happen, fine. What is the big problem here?
Where have I or any or my fellow Pakistanis assumed that it is a simple and trifling matter? For those demanding proof that Pakistanis can do it by themselves, sorry I can furnish none. Just as prior to 1999 I could not prove that Pakistan could master all the technologies related to an atom bomb. Proof is in the pudding.
You are right - I am not an expert, I do not pretend to be an expert, I have never assumed that I know too much (hence this being my 30th post in three and a half years). But it makes me uncomfortable to see that I am being quoted out of context. Notice that I had said if people can talk about WS13 (which is rumored to be a good match for JF17 - read the appropriate thread) being fit for JF17, then why can another engine not be made to fit? Of course I assumed that anyone reading this would know that I mean engines of this class only. I do not assume to know all the issues involved in an engine change. But being an engineer myself, I know that it can be done though at a cost. I have merely remarked that if the benefit of getting an alternative engine is perceived to be more than the cost involved then it shall be done. I had explained this sensitivity more fully, but that post was deleted much to my regret.
I do not understand why you have taken such umbrage at qualified comments. and that a certain "arrogance" is being indirectly ascribed to me and my fellow Pakistanis. I have gone back to check all my posts in the last week or so, and I can not find anything that could be construed or extrapolated to be insulting to China or Chinese products, or Chinese design, or anything like that. I have seen that we have shown a certain confidence that our Chinese friends are sensitive to our needs. This confidence is based on the history of relations between China and Pakistan. Young ones may not know the extent of friendship but I would only remark that it is not a one-way traffic of benefits for Pakistan. There is much else in which our Chinese friends who know would graciously acknowledge Pakistan's help. We Pakistanis have highest degree of respect for our Chinese friends, and I hate to see that little disagreements are being magnified, blown out of proportion, and all sort of bruhaha is being raised about something which is essentially not really that important - it is ONLY a future possibility. If it happens, good. If it does not happen, fine. What is the big problem here?
Where have I or any or my fellow Pakistanis assumed that it is a simple and trifling matter? For those demanding proof that Pakistanis can do it by themselves, sorry I can furnish none. Just as prior to 1999 I could not prove that Pakistan could master all the technologies related to an atom bomb. Proof is in the pudding.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
Are you people still at it? Personally I couldn't care less about what Pakistan can or can not do
Can we just stick to JF-17/FC-1 and not what Pakistan can or can not do
I mean seriously,
Last thing we need is bd popeye prohibiting any sort of JF-17/FC-1 thread.
Are you people still at it? Personally I couldn't care less about what Pakistan can or can not do
Can we just stick to JF-17/FC-1 and not what Pakistan can or can not do
I mean seriously,
Last thing we need is bd popeye prohibiting any sort of JF-17/FC-1 thread.
MastanKhan
Junior Member
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
Hi,
I blieve that this issue has blown out of proportion for no reason. First of all PAF is very satisfied with this engine at this stage. JF 17 and this current engine will grow together and will mature in the coming years---engines are not like toys that you play with them for a couple of days and then throw them away.
This plane will see upgrades after 10 years of service and that time it will be judged if another engine is needed or not. I mean to say that look at the F 16's we have---the mlu kits that we have---we are completely satisfied with the current engine---no upgraded output engine is needed.
There is too much emphasis being put into extra thrust and extra power of the engine---the F 14 tomcat flew all its life whith what the analysts stated to be an underpowered plane.
Kamra is an extremely capable engineering resource---its capabilities will be known in due time.
Hi,
I blieve that this issue has blown out of proportion for no reason. First of all PAF is very satisfied with this engine at this stage. JF 17 and this current engine will grow together and will mature in the coming years---engines are not like toys that you play with them for a couple of days and then throw them away.
This plane will see upgrades after 10 years of service and that time it will be judged if another engine is needed or not. I mean to say that look at the F 16's we have---the mlu kits that we have---we are completely satisfied with the current engine---no upgraded output engine is needed.
There is too much emphasis being put into extra thrust and extra power of the engine---the F 14 tomcat flew all its life whith what the analysts stated to be an underpowered plane.
Kamra is an extremely capable engineering resource---its capabilities will be known in due time.
Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009
I think some of yr buddy are to carry away from some success that they start to get away from reality. Until now, there is no way to prove, engine swap can be independently done by KAMRA. Even trainer K-8 engine of using American engine is first tested out by Hongdu before passing the assembly process to fellow pakistan. No testing is carried out by Pakistan themselves.
As some forumer pointed out. Even the wind tunnel you claim possess is so small, it is unfit for testing of aircraft. Pakistan lack many facilities and abilities to carry out such complicated project.
Regarding the nuclear success of Pakistan, I don't know why it is brought into this thread? Even North Korean can produced it, I don't know what kind of success it can demonstrate related to aeronautical that stand you out from the masses?
Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Iran, Brazil and many many countries can produced a-bomb if they want to. But the sensitive and consequence prevent them from taking that step.
I think some of yr buddy are to carry away from some success that they start to get away from reality. Until now, there is no way to prove, engine swap can be independently done by KAMRA. Even trainer K-8 engine of using American engine is first tested out by Hongdu before passing the assembly process to fellow pakistan. No testing is carried out by Pakistan themselves.
As some forumer pointed out. Even the wind tunnel you claim possess is so small, it is unfit for testing of aircraft. Pakistan lack many facilities and abilities to carry out such complicated project.
Regarding the nuclear success of Pakistan, I don't know why it is brought into this thread? Even North Korean can produced it, I don't know what kind of success it can demonstrate related to aeronautical that stand you out from the masses?
Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Iran, Brazil and many many countries can produced a-bomb if they want to. But the sensitive and consequence prevent them from taking that step.
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