new 60 ton tank for the PLA

Roger604

Roger604

Senior Member
plawolf said:
I don't mean to cause offense, but that's just pathetic.

True insight comes from an objective evaluation of facts to try and form a theory that best fit with reality. Less detached minds might try and make facts fit an existing theory they already believe in, but rarely do you see people trying to deny facts with an argument as ridiculous as 'if they do this then they don't know what they are doing'.

What hubris to think you know better then thousands of others who have devoted their lives to understanding tank warfare and what folly to think others are stupid enough to think that the development of a heavy tank is an extension of the people's war.

How that even make sense is beyond me. As building bigger, better and more expansive tanks that you send in in far smaller numbers then light tanks is the polar opposite of the people's war doctrine.
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rhino123 is just a newbie here. Not trying to be impolite but he suffers from a form of intellectual laziness where everything about warfare is so simple and can be reduced to one or two sentences.

Like.... "look in Afghanistan they're using drones and the US is investing a lot in developing drones"

Therefore.... "everything else in PLA is totally useless and totally obsolete, China doesn't even need an army, it just needs drones. If China is developing anything other than drones, then all the generals should be fired because they're all stupid, unlike me."

I imagine even a teenager playing Command & Conquer would have a better appreciation of the operational art than rhino123.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
plawolf said:
And that is why China has placed so much emphasis and resources on the development of its own air force and air defense.

However, recent western wars have also shown that air power is no replacement for boots on the ground if you want to win a war quickly. And for that, you need tanks to lead the charge.



Just because priority should be placed on other systems is no reason to willfully neglect others. Especially when you have the resources to easily afford to improve them.



What is this ridiculous fixation that developing a heavy tank equates to preparing to fight on Chinese soil?

How does developing a heavy tank not ideally suited to Chinese home terrain equate to preparing to fight on Chinese soil? if anything, that screams the PLA's intent to look beyond the boarders of China and is making preparations to fight in different lands.



Heavy tanks are more expensive so we shouldn't use them?! Thats a ridiculous argument. War is expensive so if thats how you think, best surrender to start with.



More hubris...
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I do not like the tone and sacastism of you... But I do agreed to most of what you have meant, although I still do not agreed with some of the arguement you have pointed out (sacastically), I will not continue to humiliate myself, so I think I will just disappeared for awhile:) (unless you choose to carry on fighting).
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
rhino123 said:
I do not like the tone and sacastism of you... But I do agreed to most of what you have meant, although I still do not agreed with some of the arguement you have pointed out (sacastically), I will not continue to humiliate myself, so I think I will just disappeared for awhile:) (unless you choose to carry on fighting).
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Well I appologies if I have caused offense to you, that was never my intent. It was your arguements that I disagreed with, not you personally.
 
J

jackbh

Junior Member
If China happen to want to build and deploy these tanks in great number, then I would suspect that their tactics are still quite outdated and are still on an defensive nature... The People War Doctrine... and maybe they can win if the war is waged in China... but casualty rate will be high... not really a bright idea.
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No one say they are going to deploy those tanks in great number. That was clearly your own thinking.
 
rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
plawolf said:
Well I appologies if I have caused offense to you, that was never my intent. It was your arguements that I disagreed with, not you personally.
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No offense taken... sometime I just need someone to knock some sense into me... too much coffee sometime.:rofl:

jackbh said:
No one say they are going to deploy those tanks in great number. That was clearly your own thinking.
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By the way... to prevent jumping up too high... let me clarify something in my previous statement (which, btw, plawolf had managed to convince me that was clearly wrong), I never also say what you have accused me of. I just say, "if"... and that is not a definite term.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
Exactly which opponent does China need to have heavy tanks for? India? Vietnam? Kazakhstan? North/South Korea? Russia?

What is the PLA's current military doctrine? What are the most likely areas of conflict?

Having a well-rounded army is certainly useful, but there is only so much military budget to go around. Spending money on developing heavy tanks necessarily means less money for modernizing the navy and the air force.

I'd say the PLAN and PLAAF needs more modernization than the PLA ground forces at the moment.
 
King_Comm

King_Comm

Junior Member
VIP Professional
What will be exact role of a heavier tank? What capability does it provide that can't be provided by other, or a combination of other means?
 
maozedong

maozedong

Banned Idiot
if the thread article say so, this type of tank is totally a new type of tank, I suggest its called type 19 tank,because it will participate in the 2019 China's National Day military parade.
However, according to "tanks and armored vehicles,"坦克装甲车辆11月刊 the article revealed that 99 tanks are being modified to test will soon be finalized.
In any case, this is only 99 tanks, an improved model, it is impossible to 60 tons.
It is completely wild guess, some people always want to 99 tanks into M1, Leopard II tanks, but the trend of the future world tanks, and no longer is the case, Western countries had yet to decide how to develop the next generation of tanks.If we use 10 years to develop a 60-ton tanks, but generally the next generation of tanks become 50 tons, then we re-changed to 50 tons of it?
non stop to discussion of the weight of tanks does not make sense, and it is incomplete.
 
Z

ZTZ99

Banned Idiot
bladerunner said:
What does the PLA in supposedly breaking up their armoured tank divisions and forming batalion size battle groups instead suggest?
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Formation of battalion sized units has been happening in the US for years and is part of a worldwide shift towards a easily deployable and efficient fighting force. It certainly says nothing about the most likely areas of conflict for the PLA.
 
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