Rome vs Han China

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tphuang

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aiguo said:
i think most of u know that Han defeated the Huns in the Wudi era. however, i'm sure that not most of u don't know some of the remnants of the Huns after they had been defeated, had escaped west to Europe and had some battle with the Roman army, and they actually won these battles. According to this, Han should defeat Rome easily at the time.
Again, many people know about Attila the Hun. Yes, the Huns had been victorious against the Goths and the vandaals(I think they defeated Vandaals too). Anyway, they were successful vs the Eastern Franks. And it is true that the Visogoths defeated the Western Roman empire. However, the Western Romans empire was far from the power house that the former Roman empire was. I'm guessing the Roman military strength probably peaked at around the time of Octavius and was still strong enough to expand up to about 100 AD. Back at that time, no one around the Romans actually gave the Romans problem. You have to remember, there was significant change to the discipline of the Roman army after 100AD. The home grown Italians were no longer enlisting in the army, so they started to enlist soldiers from the countries they conquered. You can imagine what kind of quality of soldiers you get out of that. Back in its prime, Rome was able to fight wars continuously on multiple fronts and win most of them. Han pretty much just fought against the Huns and local rebellions. After they defeated the Huns, which wasn't as convincing as you might think, they were pretty much peaceful for the next 100 years.

As for the Romans vs different types of Hans army, I don't think it will be as a big problem as people have suggested. You have to remember the different types of soldiers the Romans faced in its existence. It had to fight against the elephant army of Hannibal. Even earlier, Pyrrhus of Epirus also brought elephants with him against the Romans. In the beginning, it lost, but then it slowly learnt how to fight against elephants. If you can fight against elephants, you can fight against anything back in those days. Hannibal and Pyrrhus of Epirus are considered two of the great generals in the ancient times and even they cannot beat the Romans in its younger days. If you are wondering, Pyrrhus of Epirus also brought archers and calvary with him. The greeks picked up quite a bit of things following the Persians and Egyptians.

The reason behind all that is the discpline of the Roman soldiers and the strategies they employ. They are not as stiff as some of you have suggested. They can adapt to fight different types of wars. Heck, even Napoleon used the the battle formation of one row by one row of soldiers and he is considered the top 2 or 3 greatest general of all times. To say that the Romans can't defeat Han dynasty just because of crossbows would be inapproriate. After all, didn't Romans defeat the Egyptians and the Babylonians?
one more thing i have to say is that Han dynasty wasn't the 'peak' time in China's ancient history. our 'peak time' is the Tang dynasty which was established sometime after the end of the three kingdome era (three kingdome era is right after the fall of the Han dynasty). i'm not an expert in history and if u want to check out more Chinese history, search the web and i'm sure u would find tons more than what u think our history is all about.
We are not talking about the Tang dynasty or the romance of the 3 kingdoms. Maybe you should read a little on the Roman history.
 

Liberator

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Remember the Chinese crossbows were semiautomatic and could fire up to what, 10 bolts continously? (correct me if I'm wrong) Also, they would fire in volleys, like the Europeans did in the Napoleonic Wars.

They are semiautomatic, its called Nu (Crossbow). They fire about 5, the bolts are in a small rack, the operator must pull some kind of a trigger to get the next bolt up. Well, not sure about 10 bolts continuesly. Well, maybe its possible. However, semi-auto Nu are a little weaker than single shot Nu(s). :roll: :rofl: <--- Why is the slow 1 there?
 

T-U-P

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the one that fires 10 bolts continuously is called the 诸葛弩(zhu ge nu *westerners translate it into cho ku nu, sounds familiar?*), named after the famous strategist 诸葛亮(zhu ge liang). there are stories say that it was invented by zhu ge liang.
 

Liberator

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Chu Ko Nu in AOE2.

I don't use that.

I know its called Zhu Ge Nu. Sounds like PIG ROLL FURNACE in Chinese. :roll: :rofl:
 

FreeAsia2000

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I think this is pretty silly.

The Romans would have been thrashed soundly if they had come up against
ANY chinese army mostly because of numbers.

However how do you guys rate the Mongols in terms of armies, strategic brilliance.....?
 

IDonT

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FreeAsia2000 said:
I think this is pretty silly.

The Romans would have been thrashed soundly if they had come up against
ANY chinese army mostly because of numbers.

However how do you guys rate the Mongols in terms of armies, strategic brilliance.....?

We are discussing this for fun!!!!

Although numbers can make a huge difference, they can also be a liability. Large armies are expensive, unweildy, and slow.

Outnumbering an enemy does not always guarantee victory.
Alexander the Great conquered Persia with just 50,000 troops.
Qin were outnumbered by the other warring states and it conquered them.

Mongols were the best pre-firearms army in the world.
They were disciplined and was one of the first armies to used manuever warfare.
 

IDonT

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Liberator said:
They are semiautomatic, its called Nu (Crossbow). They fire about 5, the bolts are in a small rack, the operator must pull some kind of a trigger to get the next bolt up. Well, not sure about 10 bolts continuesly. Well, maybe its possible. However, semi-auto Nu are a little weaker than single shot Nu(s). :roll: :rofl: <--- Why is the slow 1 there?

The repeater crossbow had a very weak penetrating power. It's bolts were tipped with poison though.
 
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