China Flanker Thread II

PLA seems like to build many variants, and keep improving them without introducing them into service in large numbers. This is noticeable for nearly all PLA weapons programs.

There hasn't been official confirmation of J-11B regiments, even though PLA is much more transparent now. This is really odd considering CAC is already working on 4.5 generation aircraft and Y-20 prototype is being built. What is stopping the J-11B from entering service?

The way I see it, there are only two possibilities: One is that they will move toward J-11C (making it similar to Su-34 would be a good idea) and Two is they will go for an indigenous conventional winged 4.5 generation bomb truck like a JH-8.

Roger604 said:

PLA seems like to build many variants, and keep improving them without introducing them into service in large numbers. This is noticeable for nearly all PLA weapons programs.

There hasn't been official confirmation of J-11B regiments, even though PLA is much more transparent now. This is really odd considering CAC is already working on 4.5 generation aircraft and Y-20 prototype is being built. What is stopping the J-11B from entering service?

The way I see it, there are only two possibilities: One is that they will move toward J-11C (making it similar to Su-34 would be a good idea) and Two is they will go for an indigenous conventional winged 4.5 generation bomb truck like a JH-8.

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J11B's have not been officially confirmed because it is unwise to parade around an aircraft that is an unlicensed copy of Russian hardware. This would only anger the Russians more.

Roger604 said:

PLA seems like to build many variants, and keep improving them without introducing them into service in large numbers. This is noticeable for nearly all PLA weapons programs.

There hasn't been official confirmation of J-11B regiments, even though PLA is much more transparent now. This is really odd considering CAC is already working on 4.5 generation aircraft and Y-20 prototype is being built. What is stopping the J-11B from entering service?

The way I see it, there are only two possibilities: One is that they will move toward J-11C (making it similar to Su-34 would be a good idea) and Two is they will go for an indigenous conventional winged 4.5 generation bomb truck like a JH-8.

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the CAC project is a 5th/4th gen, unless you are talkin about a new fighter-bomber...which i think they should at least start considering.

not really, we actually have seen J-11B photos around. It was just grounded for a while due to problems with WS-10A, but that is now resolved. And I suspect a lot of the J-11As are being upgraded to use J-11B avionics + weapons. If that's not the case, then SAC is a lot more incompetent than even I thought.

As for J-11B being unlicensed, that's complete nonsense. The got license from the Russians for 200 flankers, remember? China can upgrade those flankers anyway they want to.

tphuang said:

not really, we actually have seen J-11B photos around. It was just grounded for a while due to problems with WS-10A, but that is now resolved. And I suspect a lot of the J-11As are being upgraded to use J-11B avionics + weapons. If that's not the case, then SAC is a lot more incompetent than even I thought.

As for J-11B being unlicensed, that's complete nonsense. The got license from the Russians for 200 flankers, remember? China can upgrade those flankers anyway they want to.

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woah...do the J-11B's actually work with WS-10A now?

tphuang said:

not really, we actually have seen J-11B photos around. It was just grounded for a while due to problems with WS-10A, but that is now resolved. And I suspect a lot of the J-11As are being upgraded to use J-11B avionics + weapons. If that's not the case, then SAC is a lot more incompetent than even I thought.

As for J-11B being unlicensed, that's complete nonsense. The got license from the Russians for 200 flankers, remember? China can upgrade those flankers anyway they want to.

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Yes, but i doubt it was that simple. There were likely many conditions placed on that 200 plane license. Sure they could build up to 200 planes, but it probably stipulated that all 200 must use Russian radars and Russian weapons. The J-11B is probably in violation of the original contract. If it wasn't, the J-11B would have been shown at the 60th anniversary (after all, the J-11B has more domestic components than the J-11's they did show).

Centrist said:

Yes, but i doubt it was that simple. There were likely many conditions placed on that 200 plane license. Sure they could build up to 200 planes, but it probably stipulated that all 200 must use Russian radars and Russian weapons. The J-11B is probably in violation of the original contract. If it wasn't, the J-11B would have been shown at the 60th anniversary (after all, the J-11B has more domestic components than the J-11's they did show).

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Do you think the J-15 will be violation also? J-15 will look like the Su-33.
J-15 based on the J-11B, with canard, folding wings, and landing gear.

I do believe that the J-11B were flown at the 60th anniversary. Who told you it wasn't shown? And I think China can produce any number of J-11Bs. There is nothing Russian could do about it since all the parts are Chinese made. There are even talks of Chinese exporting J-11B to foreign markets like in Africa.

Centrist said:

Yes, but i doubt it was that simple. There were likely many conditions placed on that 200 plane license. Sure they could build up to 200 planes, but it probably stipulated that all 200 must use Russian radars and Russian weapons. The J-11B is probably in violation of the original contract. If it wasn't, the J-11B would have been shown at the 60th anniversary (after all, the J-11B has more domestic components than the J-11's they did show).

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J-11B was not officially inducted into service yet. Even though KJ-200 has been inducted into 26th division, it was regarded by PLAAF as not yet in service. J-10 wasn't considered to be in service until 2006. If you look at this thread, they've already publicly admitted to J-11B, so i don't think that's the issue.

I think from what I read, China had the right to indigenize the plane. There is no way they would've signed the deal if they hadn't, because then Russia would effectively have control of what China can or cannot put on flankers. It's much easier for me to believe that the Russians in the 90s had no clue how to write a proper contract and signed a contract that they found not to their likings later. They've pretty much have been playing this game of changing rules in the recent years when it comes to high profile military contracts. It's only because there are so many anti-Chinese posters out there that they so readily believe what the Russians are saying.

jackbh said:

I do believe that the J-11B were flown at the 60th anniversary. Who told you it wasn't shown? And I think China can produce any number of J-11Bs. There is nothing Russian could do about it since all the parts are Chinese made. There are even talks of Chinese exporting J-11B to foreign markets like in Africa.

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well, there really is. I think from the Chinese perspective, they are not violating the agreement, because they have a different view of IP than Russians. They are certainly not exporting J-11B, that was all nonsense made up by the Russians to appear sympathetic.