Taiwan Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
Semi-Lobster said:
Indeed, I think we can expect attack helicopters and trainers but I don't see anything as advanced as the F-16 crossing over to the ROC anytime soon. This is going to be a real test for Ma and what he plans next or if he has long term contingency plans for defence that are not directly linked to the US. There still remains a serious hole in the ROCAF, something has to begin replacing, at the very least, the F-5E/Fs soon.
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This aging fleet of F-5, useless for air combat, and considered to be dangerous by some observers, must be retired as soon as possible. They can perhaps be replaced by the Mirage 2000-9 fleet from the Arabian Emirates airforce. A plane that is pretty similar to F-16 C/D and excellent in term of performance, radar and avionic. This is the only opportunity, cheaper indeed! Of course this option is over, if France can t resist political pressure from China. In the 90s, french officials weren't afraid of PRC. But things have changed... Otherwise, the upgrade of the rest of the fleet seems quite vital now, without the "brand" new 60 F-16 C/D from the USA. :(
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Aero_Wing_32 said:
Don't you think now, that any kind of warplanes sale to Taiwan (USA side) seems blocked for good! :( I mean, for years...
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AIDC's backup plan for a domestic replacement for the F-5s is new IDF block C/Ds. Given that the existing fleet is being upgraded it would be strange to stop Taiwan building new ones.

As for a future jet, Obama isn't going to block Taiwan getting any assistance from the US. He'd only do that if he supported China's stance on arms sales, in which case he wouldn't sell anything. It's a lot easier to allow US companies to sell parts for a Taiwanese plane than it is to sell a finished US product.

I'm not so sure it's F-16s this year or never. I expected it to be more like next year. I think the US will see how China reacts over the upcoming sales. And it's hard to know how it might respond to the reaction. If China doesn't do anything it might take it as a sign it can continue sales. If China reacts too hard the US might decide there's little to lose by selling F-16s. But even if the US says no to new F-16s (as opposed to upgrades to the existing fleet), Taiwan should invest in building a successor to the IDF.
 
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Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
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Washington is likely to agree to the sale of submarines to Taiwan as a gesture of good faith, according to a high-ranking ROC military official Dec. 10.

The comment was made in response to the latest Reuters report that the Barack Obama administration is moving toward possible new arms sales to Taiwan, including Black Hawk helicopters and design work on diesel-electric submarines. Patriot Advanced Capability (PAC-3) missiles and military equipment included in the Po Sheng command and control program are still under discussion, the report said.

Reuters cited Robert Kovac, acting deputy assistant secretary of state for defense trade, as saying that the White House was ready to notify the U.S. Congress of its decision.

“Taiwan and the U.S. are still negotiating the contents of the arms sales,” a high-level security official in Taiwan said, adding that “it is incorrect to say that the decision has been finalized.”

According to this official, the U.S. Department of State is still reviewing the submarine deal. Once it notifies Congress, it will mean the administration has approved the sale. However, as far as is known Congress has not been notified, because if it had been, the ROC military should have been informed, the official pointed out.

Neither the Bush nor the Obama administration has ever agreed to the sales of F16 C/D fighter jets to Taiwan, though Taiwan budgeted funds for their purchase, the official noted.

In the military’s analysis, President Obama would first announce the sales of the less controversial 60 Black Hawk helicopters and perhaps even the diesel-electric submarines to show his goodwill toward Taipei. “The F16 C/D fighters will be put at the bottom of the list for future consideration,” the analysis indicated.
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I don't take that as meaning they'll never be sold.
 
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Semi-Lobster

Semi-Lobster

Junior Member
kliu0 said:
Obama's "change" has hit Taiwan. I'm gonna be honest, I'm not looking forward to any arms sales from the Obama administration, its gonna be bad. If it was the other guy, Taiwan would've had F-16s by now already ;)

This serves once again as a nice wake up call, to the Taiwan government. The F-16s won't be sold for quite a while....invest in something else - UAVs for the army, upgrades for the M60 tanks, buying new M1A2 tanks, more SAM sites? Something that the US is more willing to sell that is less sensitive and is needed by the Taiwanese military, as China really only cares about F-16 sales.

BTW, I was reading an article in the newspaper the other day. Taiwan tried to contact French military officials about procuring French tanks as they were lighter, and better suited Taiwan's terrain = no response from French officials.
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While the ROCA is pretty under equipped nowadays, but the problem still remains the 60 or so ROCAF F-5s which are more of a liability than an asset and need to be replaced with something soon.

As for the French thing, if ROC can't even get a hold of French tanks then the possibility of getting French aircraft of any sort seems even more distant. Ma better have a backup plan or at least convince everyone he does because the entire direction of the ROCAF was depending on the F-16 deal.
 
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A

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
The French signed a contract with UAE back in mid 1990's to sell 388 Leclerc MBT's, a couple trainer vehicles, and 46 recovery vehicles for $4 billion. If the ROC were to order Leclerc MBT's from France today, I think the unit cost is going to be well above $10 million each, not to mention the Euro exchange rate. Also, anything from France will be over-priced.

IMO Taiwan's industry should be capable of producing tanks. The US is not going to sell MBT's to Taiwan at this time, but it may be possible to license various technologies needed to produce the tank locally. But the mentality of Taiwanese government procurement is to just import everything. They don't like or trust locally produced hardware.

Also, let's be honest here. If war ever breaks out, air and sea will determine the outcome. So the army is at lowest priority.
 
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Aero_Wing_32

Aero_Wing_32

Junior Member
adeptitus said:
The French signed a contract with UAE back in mid 1990's to sell 388 Leclerc MBT's, a couple trainer vehicles, and 46 recovery vehicles for $4 billion. If the ROC were to order Leclerc MBT's from France today, I think the unit cost is going to be well above $10 million each, not to mention the Euro exchange rate. Also, anything from France will be over-priced.
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I dare say everything from out of the USA military business is qite over priced as far as it has a large worldwide market share on military business. :rofl:

But the question is not here. French have the technology and it s not too bad to open the door to other suppliers, see the case of Brazil, or even Russia recently.

If France did not answer to the taiwanese query for now, that s probably because they re waiting for some good signs from the PRC in a lot of sensible issues - Democracy (the french dream), Copenhagen climate summit, Iran, North Korea, etc. And in some political ones, France seems a bit irritated/preoccupied by the PRC position, especially in the Iran nuclear case...

Well... I just think they re evaluating the pros and the cons of a YES to Taiwan. And I wouldn t be so surpised to see France keeping some taiwanese military querries up the sleeve...

My last question is : Does MA really want the F-16s? :confused:
 
Mr T

Mr T

Senior Member
Aero_Wing_32 said:
My last question is : Does MA really want the F-16s?
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Yes, but screaming about it won't make the deal happen any faster. He's said Taiwan needs them on more than one occasion. The whole thing with the US is that they're saying "don't submit the letter of request yet - it's not the right time". So if he pushes them into a decision it may be a permanent "no" rather than a temporary one.
 
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