UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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Well there is more:

Paddy Ashdown was on the Lunchtime News fronting this report from the Institute for Public Policy Research, saying pretty much the same thing.

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This is all the classic methods of preparing the public for bad news and I am sure this will continue on an increasingly regular basis into the next election.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Paddy Ashdown was on the Lunchtime News fronting this report from the Institute for Public Policy Research, saying pretty much the same thing.

He effectively suggested turning the Royal Navy into a coastal patrol force and join forces with the other European members of NATO - no idea what he plans for the RAF and Army. It's not going to happen because when it comes to defence continental Europe is too complacent - and will always be that way until America leaves it to fend for itself in a crisis, by which time it will be too late.

I think we should build better bridges with the Commonwealth for future defence alliances. Australia, Canada and India don't strike me as countries that would say their helicopters couldn't fly at night during a military operation.
 

lcortez

New Member
If two carriers were going to cost £5 million, I think we'd look to expand the fleet a bit more. ;)

I don't believe they're being built at one shipyard - the work is being split between several yards.

Really this is down to the government not putting the facts down on the table early enough. It was happy to say that money would be saved (in the short term) by delaying the build, but it probably knew that in the long run the cost would be higher. Doesn't mean the project is suddenly unaffordable.

If the project goes ahead I doubt there will be a "very lengthy" delay because it will just cost more again (and in a way that it's more expensive in the short-term too). A significant delay on top of the revised schedule would almost certainly mean cancellation.

However, at the moment I'm sceptical of this latest doom-and-gloom report - there have been a number in the last few months. Fact is that the contracts have been signed (who wants to bet that there are no penalty clauses?), £1 billion is soon to have been spent and the project has survived so many attacks on it by the other services, armchair generals (whose mantra of "the wars of yesterday are gone" always get proven wrong every decade or so) lefty hug-a-Taliban brigade and friends that it isn't facing anything new.

Keep an eye open in the next few weeks, as steel is/was due to be cut soon.

Sampan, I'm not surprised that Sir Michael Jackson would say that (sadly there's little service solidarity at the moment thanks to the Treasury). As for Portillo, I'd like to see him suggest to Liam Fox in person that the future Defence Secretary cancel a partly built aircraft carrier! But I think a defence review after the election is likely to work out what the country needs, how it would be best acquired (possibly more off-the-shelf purchases) and how much it will cost.

Whoops! Typo!:eek:
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Well there is more:

Paddy Ashdown was on the Lunchtime News fronting this report from the Institute for Public Policy Research, saying pretty much the same thing.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


This is all the classic methods of preparing the public for bad news and I am sure this will continue on an increasingly regular basis into the next election.

Shame on Paddy Pantsdown, and him an ex Booty as well! If we do go down the pan-European route then the best thisng we can do is build the carriers! The other Euro nations can contribute a large number of frigate sized escorts but none of them can contribute the larger vessels like carriers (excepting the French, but if we leave it to them then Europe will have only one strike carrier compared to the 11 of the USN, and don't forget all the other major powers are building carriers too ie Russia and China). No I wasn't forgetting Spain or Italy either. Their CVs aren't in the same league as CVF or CdG.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Well there is more:

Paddy Ashdown was on the Lunchtime News fronting this report from the Institute for Public Policy Research, saying pretty much the same thing.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


This is all the classic methods of preparing the public for bad news and I am sure this will continue on an increasingly regular basis into the next election.

The last time someone made cuts this deep to defence, someone decided that it was a good time to make a land grab from the Brits... not smart.
 

lcortez

New Member
I think some sorte of co ordinated defence effort in Europe would make sense, as most European defence budgets are to small to finance the big ticket items that will probabaly be needed in the future as technology progresses.

Also it makes little sense to me to duplicate capabilities, when a pooled effort would spread the cost, and deliver a better result, one example being the Naval situation outlined above.

Can't really agree with the charge that Europeans are to complacent about defence, when the French are reorientating their force's towards expeditionary warfare, along with a substantial modernisation, along with Spain increasing the size of it's army from 85,000 to 135,000, plans to order a further 100 Leopard 2a6e tanks, and reorientating towards expeditionary warfare.

No doubt other nations are making changes as well. All this at a time when th UK is talking cut's (again).

Should point out that thus is not an anti UK dig, just felt that I needed to state Europes case agains the usual EU bashing.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
I think some sorte of co ordinated defence effort in Europe would make sense, as most European defence budgets are to small to finance the big ticket items that will probabaly be needed in the future as technology progresses.

Also it makes little sense to me to duplicate capabilities, when a pooled effort would spread the cost, and deliver a better result, one example being the Naval situation outlined above.

Can't really agree with the charge that Europeans are to complacent about defence, when the French are reorientating their force's towards expeditionary warfare, along with a substantial modernisation, along with Spain increasing the size of it's army from 85,000 to 135,000, plans to order a further 100 Leopard 2a6e tanks, and reorientating towards expeditionary warfare.

No doubt other nations are making changes as well. All this at a time when th UK is talking cut's (again).

Should point out that thus is not an anti UK dig, just felt that I needed to state Europes case agains the usual EU bashing.

We're not bashing the EU because the EU has no policy on a single, pan-European defence force. We're talking realities over how our European neighbours spend on defence.

It's not just the UK that is talking about cuts to military spending. But more importantly you're neglecting to mention the fact that many European countries limit their spending to a very small percentage of GDP. The UK, France and Spain are the exception to the rule, not the norm.

Also there's no way they'd give up their militaries. The Baltic states can't even agree on a joint air force between the three of them to allow them to afford their own planes. Plus we would need a joint foreign policy to be able to use a joint defence force, which isn't going to happen.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
France has the world's third highest defense expenditure after the US and PRC.

As I said, France is one of the exceptions to the rule when it comes to defence spending in Europe. Too few states take it seriously, whilst the rest look to rely on the United States/a few of their neighbours for defence.
 

Ambivalent

Junior Member
I will say I'm a little surprised to see Bambi expanding the Spanish Army, not to mention those new LHA's they are building. Italy is hard to guage, an awful lot of their military spending is hidden in the spending of the Ministry of Industry budget and the budgets of other Italian ministries.
 
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