Possible Chinese involvement in fighting ISIS

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texx1

Junior Member
Something is very wrong with the LA Times article, because it says Monterey Shale formations is 2/3 of US shale oil reserves, and only contains around 13.7 billion barrels of oil. The US Geological Survey said Colorado's Piceance Basin alone contains around 1.5 trillion barrels of shale oil, and last I looked, a trillion is a thousand times bigger than a billion.

Since this is OT, this is last I will say about LA time shale article. LA time article refers to exploitable shale reserves, reserves that can be reached and developed with current and upcoming (10 years) technology, not total reserves. Colorado's Piceance Basin could have a total reserve of 1.5 trillion, but most of them are not exploitable with current technology and at current oil price.

The following is the report from US Energy Information Administration, same report LA time refers to. On page 5 and 6. You can see the numbers for yourself, Monterey/Santos exploitable reserves makes up about 64%.

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Brumby

Major
Well you're a hypocrite! Good faith would be if you would answer the question and you undoubtedly are avoiding it. Why? Because you're grasping at thin air. And I've already destroyed your pitiful answers of what China is getting for free just by giving you the definition of a freeloader which doesn't match what you're charging. All you do is point out the investments China has at risk. How is that free again? How hard is it to point out what's free China is getting as you've charged? You even told people to have a broader definition of words in general and you still can't do it. You can't even meet your own requirements. So quit your whining, aka demanding.

The following are the series of exchanges leading to my comment that you are not acting in good faith.

Post #34 to Xiabonan
I mentioned that hiding behind the veil of non-interference will just reinforce the notion of the behaviour of a free loader.
Post #50 to Equation
I commented the notion of perception by others - either as a free loader or a country stepping up and shouldering a share of the problem in line with its status.
Post #55
Counterprime challenge the notion was free loading. I gave 2 reasons why it is in China’s interest to participate. The reasons inherently automatically explain the benefits.
Post # 56
I challenge your assertion that the media were making demands on China. In that post I stated the media does not have authority to make demands because the meaning of demand suggest some kind of authoritative basis and clearly a media does not have on a sovereign nation. I then stated that the media were questioning in their editorial why China was not participating given its vast interest in the region and their terrorist issues in Xiajiang.
Post #57
You disagree with the notion that China was free loading but did not offer any substance in support of your assertion or any defeater to my statements to-date (post #34, post #50, post #55). Instead you posed a number of questions or made a number of statements which are just rants in my view. If you disagree, we can revisit but statements like "You broke, you fix it!" is beyond me as how that constitute a reasonable rebuttal.
Post #59
I reference to the benefits of participation by China basically echoing my earlier post #55
Post #64
I responded to your issues raised in post #63 reiterating again the benefits that China is deriving on the back of efforts of others in dealing with ISIL.
Post # 67
You basically asked the same question again as to what China is getting for free and therefore a free loader. I have already dealt with this question in different forms in post #34, 50, 55, 59, and 64. There are 2 conclusions I can draw from this continuous circular discussion either : (i) You do not understand the issue under discussion; or (ii) You are being disingenuous in wanting to engage in a meaningful conversation.
Post # 73
I communicated my conclusion. This is based on the series of exchanges that I have outlined above.
You are free to rebut or challenge any of the above but they are on public record.

May be if I were to simplify the issue it may help. Imagine you live in a gated community. There are some security issues that require additional security measures. Some residences don't feel it is a threat; others will take their chances and some don't like the person making the arrangements. So those who are willing paid for the additional measures. The rest who doesn't wish to contribute enjoyed the same security.
 

JayBird

Junior Member
May be if I were to simplify the issue it may help. Imagine you live in a gated community. There are some security issues that require additional security measures. Some residences don't feel it is a threat; others will take their chances and some don't like the person making the arrangements. So those who are willing paid for the additional measures. The rest who doesn't wish to contribute enjoyed the same security.

Poor analogy because comparing people who live in the same gated community, who shared responsibilities and liabilities by contract, and managed by the same board as to countries from different parts of the world who do not share any of the same legal obligation doesn't make any logical sense at all.


How about the Al-Rawi brothers owns a very popular supermarket in a big city that many people love to buy their fruits from. Those people include Mr.Xi and Mr.Obama, but when one of the Al-Rawi brother who nobody likes because he is a well known gangster wanted to take over the supermarket by violent from his other brothers. Mr.Obama asking everyone who buys fruits from the supermarket to help the other more friendly brothers to kick the gangster brother out.

Mr.Xi and most customers sympathize with the more friendly Al-Rawi brothers, but will not want to get involve with what they believe to be the Al-Rawi's family feud. They rather just go buy their fruits from many of the different supermarkets in the city. But Mr.Obama is very upset with Mr.Xi's decision not to jump in the fight to help the more friendly brothers because he is a frequent customer of the market, and telling everyone in town that Mr.Xi is a freeloader because he is not getting into the fight with the Al-Rawi gangster brother.
 

Brumby

Major
Poor analogy because comparing people who live in the same gated community, who shared responsibilities and liabilities by contract, and managed by the same board as to countries from different parts of the world who do not share any of the same legal obligation doesn't make any logical sense at all.

Did I say that they were legally obligated in the example? You are assuming they did. If they were, then there wouldn't be some who did not pay.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The following are the series of exchanges leading to my comment that you are not acting in good faith.

Post #34 to Xiabonan
I mentioned that hiding behind the veil of non-interference will just reinforce the notion of the behaviour of a free loader.
Post #50 to Equation
I commented the notion of perception by others - either as a free loader or a country stepping up and shouldering a share of the problem in line with its status.
Post #55
Counterprime challenge the notion was free loading. I gave 2 reasons why it is in China’s interest to participate. The reasons inherently automatically explain the benefits.
Post # 56
I challenge your assertion that the media were making demands on China. In that post I stated the media does not have authority to make demands because the meaning of demand suggest some kind of authoritative basis and clearly a media does not have on a sovereign nation. I then stated that the media were questioning in their editorial why China was not participating given its vast interest in the region and their terrorist issues in Xiajiang.
Post #57
You disagree with the notion that China was free loading but did not offer any substance in support of your assertion or any defeater to my statements to-date (post #34, post #50, post #55). Instead you posed a number of questions or made a number of statements which are just rants in my view. If you disagree, we can revisit but statements like "You broke, you fix it!" is beyond me as how that constitute a reasonable rebuttal.
Post #59
I reference to the benefits of participation by China basically echoing my earlier post #55
Post #64
I responded to your issues raised in post #63 reiterating again the benefits that China is deriving on the back of efforts of others in dealing with ISIL.
Post # 67
You basically asked the same question again as to what China is getting for free and therefore a free loader. I have already dealt with this question in different forms in post #34, 50, 55, 59, and 64. There are 2 conclusions I can draw from this continuous circular discussion either : (i) You do not understand the issue under discussion; or (ii) You are being disingenuous in wanting to engage in a meaningful conversation.
Post # 73
I communicated my conclusion. This is based on the series of exchanges that I have outlined above.
You are free to rebut or challenge any of the above but they are on public record.

May be if I were to simplify the issue it may help. Imagine you live in a gated community. There are some security issues that require additional security measures. Some residences don't feel it is a threat; others will take their chances and some don't like the person making the arrangements. So those who are willing paid for the additional measures. The rest who doesn't wish to contribute enjoyed the same security.

All that doesn't explain your liberal definition of freeloader. I googled the definition of the word "freeloader" and posted it. Where did China exploit Western generosity to give nothing in return? You never answered because you gave yourself the authority to rewrite the definitions of words because the real official definition doesn't work with your argument. And you're arrogant enough to think the whole world has to abide by your rewritten definition.

Again you pointed to Chinese investment in Iraq as to whine and demand China contribute to help the West punish those that beheaded Westerners. What generosity of the US and the West did China get from investment in Iraq. Again, did the West create a utopia in Iraq that made Chinese investment possible? Was that the generosity? But then you contradict yourself that those investment are threatened by ISIS. Well then there is no utopia of safe investment created by the West. So how did China exploit Western generosity without giving anything return for you to call China a freeloader? I know you don't understand because you made up a new definition of freeloader.
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Probably should have stopped at that, since you're wasting good oxygen on a bad penny.

Translation you guys can't win an argument.

I'm still waiting for how is Chinese culture a worse threat than Al Qaeda. I can see why you two get along because you never explain any of the absurdity you post either.
 

getready

Senior Member
There have been complains about the quality of the State Department for many years. Ambassadors for many countries, including The Netherlands, are habitually recruited from the ranks of the fund raisers for presidential campaigns which leave fewer such places available for professional diplomats. The information available about the situation in countries where US interfere is often woefully inadequate because the diplomats ( Iraq! ) hadn't done the work and the intelligence services got interested at too late a date. Perhaps the price of a squadron fighters would be enough to get a better diplomatic service but the money isn't there.

The whole strategy of mainly bombing up people and buildings in the Middle East has been proven to be costly and ultimately more destructive than effective in the long term. The whole propping of certain regimes and ganging up on others to cause civil wars and chaos is one big reason china should not get muddled up in this role. There is no long term thinking beyond the initial stages just like the other wars. If china gets into this, there is a danger it will snowball with more detrimental effects that no Amount of western powers fingerprinting will make it worthwhile.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Translation you guys can't win an argument.

I'm still waiting for how is Chinese culture a worse threat than Al Qaeda. I can see why you two get along because you never explain any of the absurdity you post either.

I stopped discussing topics with you because you obfuscate, misdirect, and outright misrepresent. In other words, I agree with Brumby that you don't act in good faith. That's why I usually ignore your comments.
 
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