Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
JayBird
Junior Member
The Thai navy just releases a document today on why it needs submarines. ( Looks like the deal for Yuan Class subs is not dead yet, lots of detailed informations on the deal. )
THE NATION July 31, 2015 1:00 am
THE NAVY has released a nine-page document detailing what it says are the reasons why the country needs to spend Bt36 billion on buying three submarines from China.
The move came after Prime Minister Chan-o-cha suspended the procurement of the Yuan Class S26T submarines and told the Navy to explain to the public the necessity of protecting the country's marine interests and why it wanted to buy the subs.
In the document, drafted on the order of Navy chief Admiral Kraisorn Chansuwanit, the Navy stated that Thailand's maritime interests amounted to Bt24 trillion per year with an increasing value. They include marine natural resources, marine transport, downstream industries and tourism.
The submarines would be only 0.006 per cent of the total marine interests because they could be used for at least 30 years, the Navy stated.
Almost 95 per cent of the country's imports and exports are transported by sea, it said, adding that about 15,000 cargo vessels passed through the Gulf of Thailand per year. If the gulf, which is 400 kilometres wide, were blocked, as happened during World War II, the country would be badly affected.
The Navy said although there was no war looming, maritime conflicts between countries existed and no one could guarantee that the conflicts would not descend into wars. Having the submarines would be a defensive strategy against wars and a balance of power mechanism.
In terms of its marine capability, the country is lagging 10 years behind neighbouring countries like Singapore, Vietnam and Indonesia.
In response to claims the Yuan Class S26T would not be useful because it can only dive in shallow water and are easy targets for enemies, the Navy argued that the Gulf of Thailand is about 50 metres deep and some operations need to be done near the shore. Planes cannot see submarines which dive down 20 metres, it said.
The Navy said it wanted to buy the submarine because it was efficient and the most value for money. Five other countries would provide only two submarines for Bt36 billion.
The Chinese submarine also had air-independent propulsion that enabled it to stay under water for 21 days compared with subs from other countries that had to emerge to charge batteries every four or five days.
The Chinese subs are also equipped with weapons, including torpedoes and sea mines, the Navy said, adding that their safety is on par with European submarines with a double-hull body.
China also offered eight years of parts service and a two-year guarantee on all equipment in the sub, while other countries offered only a one-year guarantee. China would also transfer knowledge on the sub maintenance, its systems and weapons.
The Navy said the Bt36-billion fund would be paid through instalments over seven to 10 years, or around Bt3 billion to 5 billion per year depending on how much each instalment was set at. The money would not be taken from the central fund or special funds but the Navy's annual budget allocation from the government.
The document was released in response to the government's order for the Navy to explain the plan.
FormerMP Watchara Petthong disapproved of the purchase, saying it would be unnecessary spending given the condition of the country's coffers and economy.
"I wonder if the move to push for the sub purchase has something to do with the commission fee,'' he said.
linked by cjdby's waja2000
THE NATION July 31, 2015 1:00 am
THE NAVY has released a nine-page document detailing what it says are the reasons why the country needs to spend Bt36 billion on buying three submarines from China.
The move came after Prime Minister Chan-o-cha suspended the procurement of the Yuan Class S26T submarines and told the Navy to explain to the public the necessity of protecting the country's marine interests and why it wanted to buy the subs.
In the document, drafted on the order of Navy chief Admiral Kraisorn Chansuwanit, the Navy stated that Thailand's maritime interests amounted to Bt24 trillion per year with an increasing value. They include marine natural resources, marine transport, downstream industries and tourism.
The submarines would be only 0.006 per cent of the total marine interests because they could be used for at least 30 years, the Navy stated.
Almost 95 per cent of the country's imports and exports are transported by sea, it said, adding that about 15,000 cargo vessels passed through the Gulf of Thailand per year. If the gulf, which is 400 kilometres wide, were blocked, as happened during World War II, the country would be badly affected.
The Navy said although there was no war looming, maritime conflicts between countries existed and no one could guarantee that the conflicts would not descend into wars. Having the submarines would be a defensive strategy against wars and a balance of power mechanism.
In terms of its marine capability, the country is lagging 10 years behind neighbouring countries like Singapore, Vietnam and Indonesia.
In response to claims the Yuan Class S26T would not be useful because it can only dive in shallow water and are easy targets for enemies, the Navy argued that the Gulf of Thailand is about 50 metres deep and some operations need to be done near the shore. Planes cannot see submarines which dive down 20 metres, it said.
The Navy said it wanted to buy the submarine because it was efficient and the most value for money. Five other countries would provide only two submarines for Bt36 billion.
The Chinese submarine also had air-independent propulsion that enabled it to stay under water for 21 days compared with subs from other countries that had to emerge to charge batteries every four or five days.
The Chinese subs are also equipped with weapons, including torpedoes and sea mines, the Navy said, adding that their safety is on par with European submarines with a double-hull body.
China also offered eight years of parts service and a two-year guarantee on all equipment in the sub, while other countries offered only a one-year guarantee. China would also transfer knowledge on the sub maintenance, its systems and weapons.
The Navy said the Bt36-billion fund would be paid through instalments over seven to 10 years, or around Bt3 billion to 5 billion per year depending on how much each instalment was set at. The money would not be taken from the central fund or special funds but the Navy's annual budget allocation from the government.
The document was released in response to the government's order for the Navy to explain the plan.
FormerMP Watchara Petthong disapproved of the purchase, saying it would be unnecessary spending given the condition of the country's coffers and economy.
"I wonder if the move to push for the sub purchase has something to do with the commission fee,'' he said.
linked by cjdby's waja2000
Geographer
Junior Member
Thailand buying submarines would be a huge waste of money. The military had to reach back 70 years to find an example of when sea trade was interrupted. The Iran-Iraq War from 1980-1988 is the only other example I can think of in which maritime trade was seriously affected.
The only countries with the power to threaten Thailand's sea trade are the United States, China, and Malaysia. If Thailand goes to war against the first two, a few submarines are going to be destroyed before they are used. A war against Malaysia is extremely unlikely as both governments have good relations. They have no territorial disputes with each other. They have tons of business with each other that would be cut off during a war, providing a good reason to not go to war.
And if there is never a war, the 1 billion USD used to buy the submarines, plus all the money for training, maintenance, and operations, will be wasted.
Think about alternatives for that $1 billion. That could be a major highway with international standards to improve safety. Traffic accidents are one of the leading causes of death in Thailand. It could build a medical school to produce more doctors for overcrowded hospitals and Thailand's huge medical tourism industry, thus bringing more money to the country. It could build schools and train teachers to relieve overcrowding. You don't have to look back 70 years to find an example of overcrowded roads, schools, and hospitals. They're happening right now. Money spent on submarines is an insurance plan against a highly unlikely event. Money spent on infrastructure and social services has a guaranteed payoff.
The only countries with the power to threaten Thailand's sea trade are the United States, China, and Malaysia. If Thailand goes to war against the first two, a few submarines are going to be destroyed before they are used. A war against Malaysia is extremely unlikely as both governments have good relations. They have no territorial disputes with each other. They have tons of business with each other that would be cut off during a war, providing a good reason to not go to war.
And if there is never a war, the 1 billion USD used to buy the submarines, plus all the money for training, maintenance, and operations, will be wasted.
Think about alternatives for that $1 billion. That could be a major highway with international standards to improve safety. Traffic accidents are one of the leading causes of death in Thailand. It could build a medical school to produce more doctors for overcrowded hospitals and Thailand's huge medical tourism industry, thus bringing more money to the country. It could build schools and train teachers to relieve overcrowding. You don't have to look back 70 years to find an example of overcrowded roads, schools, and hospitals. They're happening right now. Money spent on submarines is an insurance plan against a highly unlikely event. Money spent on infrastructure and social services has a guaranteed payoff.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Yeah but Thailand wants to keep an edge over their rival Myanmar. The two military junta government are not particularly the best of friends and are sometimes wary of each other.
Skywatcher
Captain
Funny how the Thai Democrats are going against the deal, since they're fairly friendly with the Junta.
OTH, China shouldn't take it too personally. After all, every attempted major sub purchase by the RTN over the past 30 years has fallen apart (well, for starters, the RTN gets less priority than the RTAF or RTA).
OTH, China shouldn't take it too personally. After all, every attempted major sub purchase by the RTN over the past 30 years has fallen apart (well, for starters, the RTN gets less priority than the RTAF or RTA).
antiterror13
Brigadier
Would you say the same for Navy as well?, with your logic, perhaps Thailand would only need patrol ships
The...Thai Navy...or the Pakistan Navy? God...the Viets and the Indians got to be annoyed and scared :/
antiterror13
Brigadier
or both navies may get Yuan
navyreco
Senior Member
Ok, so I thought it would be a good idea to go ahead and publish an article on the new modified Type 039B (sometime reffered as Type 039BG and sometimes even Type 039C)... but I didn't no what I was getting into... I felt the pain after I started doing some research... It is just nearly impossible to find sources backing one another...
Anyways here it is. As usual, don't hesitate to point out major mistakes/innacuracies I may (I should say likely) have done with this one...
China's PLAN Modified Type 039B SSK (Type 039C ?) Continues Trials at Sea
Chinese spotters have published pictures showing People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy) newly modified Type 039B diesel electric submarine (SSK), sometimes reffered as Type 039C, continuing sea trials. So far, three so called Type 039C have been spotted.
Anyways here it is. As usual, don't hesitate to point out major mistakes/innacuracies I may (I should say likely) have done with this one...
China's PLAN Modified Type 039B SSK (Type 039C ?) Continues Trials at Sea
Chinese spotters have published pictures showing People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN or Chinese Navy) newly modified Type 039B diesel electric submarine (SSK), sometimes reffered as Type 039C, continuing sea trials. So far, three so called Type 039C have been spotted.