antiterror13
Brigadier
I don't think Yuan is an improved Kilo, in fact very little similarity of those two
Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Honestly I'd wait until the official cost figure is released. Sure, it's possible the PN is looking for a version of S20 with AIP and VLS, but then costs ($4-5bn to drop on submarines!) is not a trivial thing for Pakistan. With $4-5bn would it not rather spend that money towards additional frigates and possibly even corvettes as well?
JayBird
Junior Member
A good sub like S20 with AIP and VLS has more strategy values than any firgates or even DDG for Pakistan when you can't match your much bigger rival's surface ships in technology and numbers. Modern subs are the perfect weapon for asymmetric warfare and better deterrent against much stronger foes.
Pakistan is doing a great job improving her military strength with the relatively limited budget at the same time working on self proficient/reliance with projects from Air force JF-17, Army Al khalid tanks, now Navy with S20 subs. It's baby steps, but you have to start from somewhere. I think they are building a very good foundation for indigenize all their important needs for the future just like what China was/is doing now. It's the right decision for Pakistan to get S20 and maybe TOT instead of getting few surface combatants.
shen
Senior Member
Amur is not a improved Kilo either. Amur, a single hull SSK, is a complete departure from the double hull Kilo. Ultra doesn't know what he's talking about.
But I think frigates do have some value, especially in terms of carrying area wide air defence systems, a capability the PN could make use of against the IAF and INs' increasingly strong aviation assets. I agree, the PN doesn't need to focus on the surface fleet beyond the base minimum, but the base minimum - in my view - could include 4-6 frigates in the 3500-4000 ton range.
I think they are doing both.
Some more surface combatant in the form of frigates...and apparently some subs too.
Ultra
Junior Member
From wiki:
"The Type 039A inherits the tail design of the Type 039 (NATO codename: Song class) with four diving planes and a single large shaft. The teardrop shaped hull and large sail suggest heavy Kilo influence. The teardrop shape also suggests a pressurized double hull design inherited from the Kilo."
From a lot of online discussion and blogs from defense analysts, some are even outright calling Yuan a copy or Kilo!
China's Yuan Class Submarine related to Russian KIilo and possibly Lada Classes
......"The first Yuan appeared to be a copy of the early model Kilo (the model 877), while the second Yuan (referred to as a Type 41B) appeared to copy the late Kilos (model 636)."
From wiki:
"The Amur-class submarine (named for the ), is one of the latest Russian submarine designs. It is advertised as an export version of the , a modernised version of the with improved acoustic stealth, new combat systems, and an option for (AIP)."
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Ultra
Junior Member
The problem is, IAF and IN have BrahMos and are putting heavy funding on follow-up BrahMos. Putting money on surface combatants may be wasted in my opinion as they would be fodder for the hyperson AShMs as there is little defense against that (or even evasive supersonic ones).
Stealthy AIP subs with VLS that launch LACMs underwater gives more strategic advantage to a nation facing bigger opponent, very much like a sniper that can hold down a platoon. The asymmetrical advantage of submarine is undeniable, and a reason why many nations around China are now investing in subs because China is now perceived as the "bigger foe" as they seek asymmetrical advantage.
I do not see the similarity between a submarine ( holding down What? ) and a sniper holding down a platoon.
Even if no defence is available against BrahMos now ( is that true? ) it is unlikely to be true in five years time. Any important weapon will be countered.
Ultra
Junior Member
Subs can hold down a significant resources of OpFor navy. As it can threaten the fleet, and with VLS it can even threaten the high value targets on land. So the OpFor has to divert significant resources to hunt down the subs that hides in ocean. On the other hand, surface fleet are comparatively easier to locate and identify when India already have wide variety of high resolution IMINT satellites, SAR satellites, and long range maritime reconnaissance aircrafts such as Tupolev Tu-142 and P-8 Poseidons and UAVs.