09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[Deleted member 13312]

Both SSNs and SSKs has their own advantages and disadvantages respectively. But one cannot compare the PLAN's requirements to that of the USN's. For the PLAN, the SSK is ideally suited for operations close to home, it's numerical advantage cancelling out the US SSN's endurance. And this will be the case so long as China continues to have interests in areas close to home.
SSN's as many had already pointed out earlier, are more useful in regards to long range patrols and influence projection, more specifically towards CBG escorts. But even when China possesses a substantial carrier fleet, it is unlike that the ratio of SSN to SSK in the PLAN's fleet is going to be increased significantly. The US is a special case in that both it CBG and security interests are located/required at distant locations, hence the large numbers of SSNs.

It did be more accurate to envision a future PLAN in which the bulk of it consist of SSKs with a smaller group of SSNs. 10-20 boats would suffice.

 

[Lethe]

It did be more accurate to envision a future PLAN in which the bulk of it consist of SSKs with a smaller group of SSNs. 10-20 boats would suffice.

In the long-term (2040 and beyond) I could see SSN numbers surpassing SSK numbers, but certainly the latter will continue to exist in significant numbers.

 

[Biscuits]

Yes, for the moment. They are quite suitable for China's relatively shallower waters. But this won't be the case from the next decade onwards. Once the carrier battle groups start taking shape and when the PLAN truely becomes a blue water navy, they will require a new generation of SSN. I think a CBG would have 2x SSN. They will require many SSN to protect China's growing overseas interests. SSNs are much faster, dive deeper and literally have unlimited range.

Regarding the acoustics, SSKs are very quiet when running on batteries, but modern SSN also have ultra-quiet modes in slow speeds. The Seawolf and Astute class are exceptionally quiet.

Blue water is just the ability to sustain operations outside of own waters with reasonable replenishment. 093Bs are perfectly OK for any type of projection like that.

Against the USN, a 095 SSN with Yuan tech would be massively outnumbered outside of Asia anyways, in addition to having less raw capability than the original SSK Yuan. Even if they make them 1.5 times as capable as Virginia, there will be 3 Virginia for 1 of them.

Yuans can dive very deep (550m), are exceptionally quiet as well and if they stay in Asia, the enemy subs will be sailing towards them, rendering speed much less meaningful.

IMO SSKs will always be important for the navy. Asia is a focal point for the whole world, every nation transits it's waterways and uses it's ports. The near waters will always remain highly relevant.

 

[gelgoog]

To be honest I am surprised the Chinese never got the same sort of access to Russian submarine technology that say the Indians did.
Still the Chinese have access to all the basic technologies like nuclear reactors and have enough metallurgical expertise. They also have more advanced knowledge of modern civilian naval construction that the Russians do. So it's a question of time really.

 

[Lethe]

To be honest I am surprised the Chinese never got the same sort of access to Russian submarine technology that say the Indians did.

Russia and India have enjoyed generally positive relations since the founding of the Republic, while of course Russia's relations with China have varied significantly over the same period. There is also the simple matter that China is not simply a valuable partner and source of currency for Russia, but also a potential threat, whereas India is not (and of course India didn't get the Tu-22M3 either).

In a slightly different world it's possible to imagine Russia sharing strategically sensitive capabilities and technologies with China, such as nuclear submarine technologies or the Tu-22M3 Backfire platform, but in any case I think the time for such things has passed.

 

[gelgoog]

Russia and India have enjoyed generally positive relations since the founding of the Republic, while of course Russia's relations with China have varied significantly over the same period. There is also the simple matter that China is not simply a valuable partner and source of currency for Russia, but also a potential threat, whereas India is not (and of course India didn't get the Tu-22M3 either).

In a slightly different world it's possible to imagine Russia sharing strategically sensitive capabilities and technologies with China, such as nuclear submarine technologies or the Tu-22M3 Backfire platform, but in any case I think the time for such things has passed.

I don't know about that. With the sanctions and the growth in Chinese industry there is a lot more potential for trade exchanges between both countries.
It is not like the Chinese don't have anything to trade with that the Russians want anymore. That time has passed. As long as the borders between both countries are stable, and as far as I know they are, I see no reason why the trade exchanges won't grow with time. China has a lot of manufactured goods and production capacity. The Russians have a lot of raw materials and still retain some know-how. In a lot of ways it is a natural partnership. There are lot of products a country like Russia would have a hard time producing simply because their market is not large enough.

I think I said this before but much like the relationship between Canada and the USA I think it is quite possible a similar relationship will occur between Russia and China. In fact this might have happened already if it wasn't for the problems Russia has with border instability (not just with China but elsewhere as well). The border instability increases the demand for military technological investments.

While the Russians might not be willing to trade certain technologies yet I could see them helping with submarine design if it came to that. Or leasing nuclear submarines like what they do with India.

 

[Biscuits]

By the time Russia was open to leasing Akulas, China already had built many Shangs.

I could see there being interest for the Yasen, given that there is no direct equivalent in the PLAN, but that is a function of putting all eggs in the SSK basket. A Sino-Russian design based on the Yasen will not offer any advantage other than platform commonality than a N-SSN using Yuan's quieting technologies on a SSN. And as outlined a few posts above, there's a few reasons why PLAN may want to wait on making such a platform.

 

[asif iqbal]

India has been leasing SSN for decades from Russia however they still don't seem to be trained

 

[Hyperwarp]

To be honest I am surprised the Chinese never got the same sort of access to Russian submarine technology that say the Indians did.
Still the Chinese have access to all the basic technologies like nuclear reactors and have enough metallurgical expertise. They also have more advanced knowledge of modern civilian naval construction that the Russians do. So it's a question of time really.

Even in the 90's, there were certain types of tech that Russia was not willing to provide. In recent times Russia's attitude has changed when selling sensitive tech, but by that time China had lost interest plus they hired Russian experts from many related fields.

 

[by78]

Satellite view of the assembly hall...

(1376 x 836)