Plan Type 095/096 Nuclear Submarine Thread

Discussion in 'Navy' started by Hendrik_2000, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. Hendrik_2000
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    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

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    wow look at the size
    China’s new antenna is five times the size of New York City, but some fear it could be a cancer risk
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...-five-times-size-new-york-city-it-also-cancer
    • Work to build facility was 13 years in the making, but some researchers have expressed concern about exposure to extremely low frequency waves
    • Project WEM will be able to communicate with submarines under the water, reducing need for them to surface

    PUBLISHED : Monday, 31 December, 2018, 10:41am
    UPDATED : Tuesday, 01 January, 2019, 1:11am


    [​IMG]

    The Wireless Electromagnetic Method (WEM) project took 13 years to build but researchers said that it was finally ready to emit extremely low frequency radio waves, also known as ELF waves. Those waves have been linked to cancer by the World Health Organisation-affiliated International Agency for Research on Cancer.

    Although the project has civilian applications – officially it will be used for earthquake and mineral detection and forms part of China’s 11th five-year plan – it could also play a crucial role in military communications.

    Scientists said that its transmissions could be picked up by a submarine lurking hundreds of metres under the sea, thus reducing the vessel’s risk of having to resurface to receive transmissions.

    China and Russia perform controversial experiments to modify atmosphere
    The project follows the construction of China’s first military-grade Super Low Frequency transmission station in 2009.

    The next year, a Chinese nuclear submarine successfully communicated with the station from deep water – making China the third country in the world to have established such a submarine communication system, after the United States and Russia.

    But the Chinese navy is eager to expand its capacity and has been pouring resources into the more advanced ELF radio technology, which allows submarines to communicate with the command centre from a greater depth and is harder to disrupt.

    The Chinese government, however, has played down the importance of the facility, which occupies some 3,700 sq km (1,400 square miles) of land, in information released to the public.

    Apart from the need to protect an important strategic asset, some researchers said that the secrecy was to avoid causing public alarm.

    The antenna would emit ELF signals with a frequency of between 0.1 to 300 hertz, the researchers said.

    [​IMG]


    The exact site of the facility has not been disclosed, but information available in Chinese research journals suggests it is in the Huazhong region, an area in central China that includes Hubei, Henan and Hunan provinces and is home to more than 230 million people – greater than the population of Brazil.

    Project WEM’s main surface structure is a pair of high voltage power supply lines stretching from north to south, east to west on steel lattice towers, which form a cross that is 60km (37 miles) wide and 80km to 100km (50 to 62 miles) long.

    At the end of each power line, thick copper wire goes underground through a deep borehole. Two power stations generate strong currents and electrify the ground in slow, repeating pulses, turning the earth underfoot into an active source of electromagnetic radiation.

    The radio pulses not only pass through the atmosphere, but travel through the Earth’s crust as well, with a range of up to 3,500km (almost 2,200 miles), according to the project scientists.

    A sensitive receiver within that range, which is roughly the distance between China and Singapore or Guam, would be able to pick up these signals.

    The closer to the power source, the stronger the pulses.

    The radar will be difficult for spy satellites to detect because it will appear no different to an ordinary power grid, although a radar expert said it might be possible to detect its emissions and use those to determine the location.

    The inland location of the new facility would also make it harder for an enemy to attack, compared with a facility located on the coast.

    Though I am involved in the project I have no idea where it is
    CHEN XIAOBIN, RESEARCHER AT CHINA EARTHQUAKE ADMINISTRATION
    Chen Xiaobin, a researcher with the Institute of Geology, China Earthquake Administration, who has been working on the project, said he did not know its exact location because that information needed a high level of security clearance.

    “This facility will have important military uses if a war breaks out … Though I am involved in the project, I have no idea where it is. It should be up and running by now,” he said.

    Lu Jianxun, the chief scientist on the project, also leads a key communication programme at the PLA Naval Command, according to information on Chinese government websites.

    The construction work was led by 724 Research Institute under the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation, which is a major supplier of communications and electronic warfare equipment to the Chinese navy.
     
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  2. Biscuits
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    Biscuits Junior Member
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    @Viktor Jav

    Any situation on the high seas will heavily favor the side with numerical superiority.

    USN will however not be able to win an engagement without entering the 2nd island chain with at least some forces. The PLAN would hypothetically focus on defeating these forces rather than venturing out of land based support and be heavily outnumbered. At least until war production kicks in and they can match USN numerically.

    Even if a 095 can be made as silent as a Yuan, they would still face overwhelming numbers on the high seas.

    PLAN response would be based on staying inside the island chains and picking off targets there. This would not change whether SSK or SSN are predominant. The only way this strategy can change is if the PLAN can have numerical superiority or at least parity with the USN.
     
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  3. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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    That again will depend on where and what navy they will be up against. Try engage the Indian Navy in the Indian Ocean with only SSK? Well good luck with that. Or trying to contest West of Australia to try and disrupt US Australian cooperation ? Yeah they will get another thing coming.
     
  4. Viktor Jav
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    Viktor Jav Junior Member
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    Numerical superiority + strategy and a certain level of technological advancement. You are missing 2 of that in your post, if numbers are the end all be all then we did be seeing North Korea having the second most powerful army just by virtue of having the second most men under arms.

    While the idea of the PLAN bottling up in their homewaters may seem like a good idea. It is strategically the most bankrupt of them all as it assist the PLAN in achieving virtually nothing of strategic value. It does not deter the USN from contesting the 2nd island chain which the USN is fully capable of doing so, it does not secure any strategic area for the PLAN, and last of all, it will not help achieve any potential goals that China would have in mind (ie: domination over the SCS).
    Turtling only make sense if the that side had achieve a very defensible position and has no intention of pushing outward. And that is far from the case for China, it's major shipyards and economic centers are located in very vulnerable areas due to the lack of strategic depth, it still has territorial disputes that potential requires it to stretch beyond the 1st island chain to settle.
    All of this requires an undersea escort that can range out and strike at vulnerable target nodes and to disrupt enemy logistic and supply line. That is what a SSN is uniquely suited for.
     
  5. Biscuits
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    Biscuits Junior Member
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    @Viktor Jav

    Having much more ships *does* give USN a huge advantage in open seas confrontation. PLAN could leverage tech and strategy to try and mitigate it, but USN ships will still be within the same “generation” as them and roughly comparable. I don’t see PLAN gaining the open seas advantage without a budget raise.

    The areas inside the second island chain are strategically extremely valuable. The SCS IS part of this area. I’m saying the PLAN doesn’t have the resources to face the USN in the Indian Ocean.

    Within the second island chain, China can fully leverage tech and strategy to contest despite having a smaller navy.

    The SSK fleet can effectively wall off what’s inside the 2nd island chain, acting as a vanguard for surface combatants, aircraft and land based weapons.

    In this role, they are close enough to bases that range isn’t an issue (Yuans can stay submerged for 21 days). In other words, quietness is the decisive metric on whether they can carry out their mission effectively.

    I think SSNs do have a place in the navy’s lineup, but even very advanced SSNs would be troubled when facing overwhelming numbers. However, SSNs will be the superior choice when it comes to escorting China’s carriers against weaker opponents.
     
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  6. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Major

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    well, thats definitely NOT what I meant ... of course not in Indian ocean against Indian navy ... thats crazy scenario for an SSK. I meant within 2nd and 3rd island chain against anybody (Indian navy is included) but the USN .. :p
     
    #296 antiterror13, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  7. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    I doubt it would cause cancer. What is more likely though is that it could cause issues for large sea mammals. Acoustic Sonar has been linked to beached dead whales in the past.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/14/stranded-whales-ocean-navy-sonars

    Those sea mammals typically communicate at those frequencies and are quite sensitive to them. So any abnormally large emitter can be potentially deadly.
     
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  8. jobjed
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    jobjed Captain

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    They're not even the same field of physics. One's sound and the other's EM.
     
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  9. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    If it is an electric field, sharks are quite sensitive to those and have specific organs to detect electric fields to catch prey.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroreception
     
  10. jobjed
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    jobjed Captain

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    ELF radio transmissions are not electric fields either. One acts through photos, and the other electrons.

    At this point, I'm not sure if you should keep putting forward biological and physical phenomena unrelated to the topic at hand.
     
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