09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

[kwaigonegin]

Quite a lot of members in this forum would recognise it straightaway, Jeff would do so instantly

Not necessarily.. depends on the driver... if sub chasers sure like a P3 crew or S70.. but your avg fighter jock or bug driver may not unless it's something common like a delta or typhoon.

 

[Icmer]

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Thoughts?

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

^^
A Garbage journalism.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

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Thoughts?

You should go to Plan news thread it has been discussed there Ad Nauseum

 

[Icmer]

You should go to Plan news thread it has been discussed there Ad Nauseum

Thank you, I read the discussion there.

But I still have doubts. Users in that thread were trying to dismiss the possible negative implications for China's submarine fleet, claiming that it is merely an old design from the 1990s and so it shouldn't be concerning that it was detected. However, the submarine was a Type 93B, the most advanced submarine type currently operational in the PLAN (please correct me if I'm wrong.) Assuming that the capabilities of Chinese submarines advance progressively with the rollout of newer models, shouldn't it be one of the quietest submarines in China's fleet? Yes I know the Type 95 is in development, but none is currently operational. According to all accounts, the JMSDF detected, tracked and followed the Type 93B while it was still submerged. How does this not indicate an embarrassing level of noise created by the Chinese submarine - and, by extension, the entire PLAN submarine fleet?

 

[Iron Man]

Thank you, I read the discussion there.

But I still have doubts. Users in that thread were trying to dismiss the possible negative implications for China's submarine fleet, claiming that it is merely an old design from the 1990s and so it shouldn't be concerning that it was detected. However, the submarine was a Type 93B, the most advanced submarine type currently operational in the PLAN (please correct me if I'm wrong.) Assuming that the capabilities of Chinese submarines advance progressively with the rollout of newer models, shouldn't it be one of the quietest submarines in China's fleet? Yes I know the Type 95 is in development, but none is currently operational. According to all accounts, the JMSDF detected, tracked and followed the Type 93B while it was still submerged. How does this not indicate an embarrassing level of noise created by the Chinese submarine - and, by extension, the entire PLAN submarine fleet?

It is not necessarily "embarrassing". As mentioned by others, there are many pieces of information that we don't have access to that could have influenced the detection of that sub. For example, there could be SOSUS or other underwater detection assets around the Diaoyu islands. If a sub approaches as close as that 093B did to the coast, it could have been detected that way. Second, the 093B while probably a massive improvement in quieting compared to the 091 and even the 093 baseline, may not be as quiet as is assumed by some (especially by fanbois). Personally I doubt the 093B is any quieter than early LA class subs, and may not even be as quiet; OTOH that would still represent a leapfrog in quieting technology considering where the 091 and probably the 093 started at. We will have to wait for the 095 for another leapfrog in quieting. You have to remember that the Russians went through 6 generations of nuke subs before they got to the Yasen class: November, Victor I/II, Victor III, Alpha/Sierra, Akula, and improved Akula. The Americans did the same (excluding the USS Nautilus): Skate, Skipjack, Permit, Sturgeon, LA, and improved LA, before they got to the Seawolf/Virginia. China has only had 3 generations so far: 091, 093, and 093B (i.e. "improved 093"). Even if each generation of Chinese subs skipped an entire generation per design, the 093B would still only be at early LA/Akula levels of acoustic signature.

 

[Lethe]

Yes I know the Type 95 is in development, but none is currently operational. According to all accounts, the JMSDF detected, tracked and followed the Type 93B while it was still submerged. How does this not indicate an embarrassing level of noise created by the Chinese submarine - and, by extension, the entire PLAN submarine fleet?

Worst case scenario, it reveals that even the latest 093B is far behind the times and of limited warfighting utility.

... but so what?

Until the mid-2000s, you could've said the same of China's surface fleet, and look where we are now, and what the next decade promises to bring.

The reason China only has a handful of SSNs is because the Navy knows they aren't up to scratch and isn't about to dump valuable resources into a large fleet of expensive but inferior submarines. As with surface ships, when the technology is there, large-scale production will follow. And the smug superiority of USA, Japan, etc. will give way to increasing hysteria about the Chinese dragon come to devour us all.

 

[Hyperwarp]

Thank you, I read the discussion there.

But I still have doubts. Users in that thread were trying to dismiss the possible negative implications for China's submarine fleet, claiming that it is merely an old design from the 1990s and so it shouldn't be concerning that it was detected. However, the submarine was a Type 93B, the most advanced submarine type currently operational in the PLAN (please correct me if I'm wrong.) Assuming that the capabilities of Chinese submarines advance progressively with the rollout of newer models, shouldn't it be one of the quietest submarines in China's fleet? Yes I know the Type 95 is in development, but none is currently operational. According to all accounts, the JMSDF detected, tracked and followed the Type 93B while it was still submerged. How does this not indicate an embarrassing level of noise created by the Chinese submarine - and, by extension, the entire PLAN submarine fleet?

Indeed the JMSDF detecting the 093B is disappointing and even worse considering she was travelling very slowly from what I understood. But 093B is still a huge improvement over previous generation of 091 and 093 subs. 093B is said to be quieter than LA 688 but not to the level of the LA 688i. The 1st Flight I (688) was commissioned in 1976 and the 1st Flight III 688i in 1988. In contrast the US has been using Seawolf since 1997 and Virginia since 2004. The PLAN SSN fleet is about 2 generations behind the US (Seawolf/Virginia), UK (Astute) and Russia (Yasen/Yasen-M). So when you look at it that way, JMSDF detecting the 093B is unfortunate but not unexpected since their anti-sub capabilities are probably the best in pacific after the US.

 

[latenlazy]

Indeed the JMSDF detecting the 093B is disappointing and even worse considering she was travelling very slowly from what I understood. But 093B is still a hug improvement over previous generation of 091 and 093 subs. 093B is said to be quieter than LA 688 but not to the level of the LA 688i. The 1st Flight I (688) was commissioned in 1976 and the 1st Flight III 688i in 1988. In contrast the US has been using Seawolf since 1997 and Virginia since 2004. The PLAN SSN fleet is about 2 generations behind the US (Seawolf/Virginia), UK (Astute) and Russia (Yasen/Yasen-M). So when you look at it that way, JMSDF detecting the 093B is unfortunate but not unexpected since their anti-sub capabilities are probably the best in pacific after the US.

No sub is invisible if they’re near a shore, and no sub can stay invisible once they’re spotted. There are too many unknowns and complications in the circumstances of this incident to take away anything useful about the 093B’s noise level.

 

[Hyperwarp]

No sub is invisible if they’re near a shore, and no sub can stay invisible once they’re spotted. There are too many unknowns and complications in the circumstances of this incident to take away anything useful about the 093B’s noise level.

Why on earth would they sail so close to the shore knowing the risk of detection?