09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Well, I’ve tried to make sense of it, and I’m still confused …

These Type 094 SSBN’s are impressive boats but without effective SSN support they are leaving themselves vulnerable in an important area.

And yet we do not even seem to agree on what the Type 093 SSN Class consists of.

Most observers agree that there are six of them and that the first two are the ‘prototype’ or first version, entering service in 2006-07.
Then there is the one with the small fillet in front of the sail, often called the 093A.

Thereafter the confusion arrives. I have seen the next version with the small raised platform aft of the sail. Often called 093B or 093G.
I am aware that ‘’Chinese media’’ (and others) have called this a VLS Cruise missile variant. However there is no evidence of this.
Further confusion arises when this version is purported to be longer than the others, how much longer?

And then there is the 093T version with a half sizes Dry Deck Shelter, which is probably a wet deck shelter big enough for 2/3 of an SDV.

So over to you guys … does anyone, honestly, know how many of each of these boats there are, what they are called and what they are equipped to do?

Extremely difficult coz black boats in more nuclears and in more Chinese... !

2 x 093 N° 407, 408 sure
No sure for new except almost sure a total of 6 A/B after futur 095 but not in service before minimum 2020
1 or 2 x 093A 413, 414 ( 094 : 409 -412 )
4 or 5 x 093B 415 - 418

We have see in 06/2016 a 093B normaly in service so 093A 1 or 2 are in service logic.
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On sat view for see the number very difficult coz the 2 submarines bases have under the mountain’s a underground berthing facility with a submarine tunnel entrance, in addition a part deployed and 094 have begin detrence patrol normaly in 2015 on all last GE view 2 SSBNs are visible so very possible one deployed and one Under the mountain or out for maintenace etc... same for SSNs.
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Other base for nuclear submarines is to Shakizou/Jiangezhuang.


Chine SNA.jpg
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Good article from Lyle Goldstein about new facility to built nuclear submarine though the stock photo is kilo. It can simultaneously built 4 submarine I guess Type 96. Another news is plan to open naval base in Gwadar and constant patrolling by type 95 in Indian Ocean
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China Prepares to Ramp Up its Shipbuilding Process
goldstein_0.jpg

A decade ago, myriad questions hung over the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN). The only modern vessel it seemed capable of building in a hurry was
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, hardly the stuff of a world-class fleet. Where were the large surface combatants or even the frigates that are the workhorses of any sea service? And then there was the biggest question of all: would China actually go all in for the “holy grail” of naval prestige and
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? Things look very different from today’s vantage point. Not only are China’s simultaneous
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and
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(and
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and
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) programs the envy of the world, Beijing’s aspiration to wield “super carriers” is no longer a laughing matter at all.

On the other hand, media attention focused elsewhere seemed almost to suggest that the Chinese submarine force might have been marginalized by the glitzy carrier program, not to mention the
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dotting the South China Sea. The new leader of the PLAN,
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, is yet another surface warfare officer rather than a member of the undersea service. However, there are some palpable signs that the PLAN submarine force might be seeking a return to the limelight after some years in the shadows. First, my colleague Conor Kennedy has
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on the China Strategic Emerging Industry [中国战略新兴产业] website that suggests that China is in the process of completing perhaps the world’s largest nuclear submarine fabrication facility. Second, additional bombshells have emerged from
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of Naval & Merchant Ships [舰船知识], which quite casually announced that Beijing might opt to forward base some submarines at Gwadar in Pakistan, while also letting it be known that one of its new Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarines had been active as recently as December 2016 in a continuing escort mission in the Gulf of Aden. Finally, this edition of Dragon Eye also examines some developing discussions among Chinese naval strategists reflecting an apparently new doctrinal concept for the modernizing PLAN submarine force of power projection “from the sea . . .”

According to the article from the China Strategic Emerging Industry site, “Many media outlets are reporting that China’s Bohai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry Co. has built a new large-size factory.” Later, the new facility at Huludao is described as a “super factory” [超级工程] and it is noted with great pride that that the fabrication shed was erected in just one year. In terms of size comparisons, this piece asserts that it is the world’s largest: “Western production lines for the most part can only build one submarine, and only the US is capable of building two submarines simultaneously, but China is now capable of building four!”

According to this article, China already has at least four type 094/094A ballistic missile submarines and at least five Type 093/093G attack submarines, so it is speculated that the new facility is to build the successor third-generation classes of Type 096 ballistic missile submarines and Type 095 attack submarines. The new submarines will be built using modular fabrication techniques. The projection is made that Chinese nuclear submarine production will double its rate within two to three years. The advantages of the new facility for production in all-weather conditions, and in terms of hiding the building from U.S. spy satellites, are duly noted. The author reveals that within Chinese Navy circles the question of whether to prioritize the aircraft carrier, or large surface ships or nuclear submarines, has formed a “focal point of debate” [争论的焦点], but concludes that there is a consensus behind “balanced development” [平衡发展] and nuclear submarines are a key part of that balance.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
(cont)

Two other recent revelations from Chinese-language sources may be almost as significant. Both are in small news tidbits from the front material in the February 2017 edition of the Naval & Merchant Ships, a Chinese naval magazine published by the shipbuilding conglomerate China State Shipbuilding Company. The lead headline item on the list, perhaps suggesting its importance, is as follows: “China Might Send Submarines to Guard the Port of Gwadar” [中国或派潜艇守卫瓜德尔港]. These submarines would work together with the Pakistan Navy to protect the port and also “maritime trade routes.” The report also says there is a possibility that the Chinese Navy will build a base there and use it to “support the activities of its fleet in the Indian Ocean.” True, the source of this information is revealed to be the Pakistan Navy, but it would be quite unusual for this Chinese navy-affiliated magazine to lead with such a headline if there was no basis to it. Moreover, another news item further down the list seems to offer some evidence for the above assertion in relating how a Type 093 nuclear submarine took part in a Gulf of Aden escort during December 2016. The headline reads simply “Navy Type 093 Conducts Escort in the Gulf of Aden” [海军093 型核潜艇亚丁湾护航]. A small photo accompanying the item shows a surfaced submarine in the foreground with a merchant ship and two warships in the background. Not much additional information is provided, but the report follows others that suggest that Beijing is routinizing nuclear submarine patrols
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. One can only smirk at the supposed naval logic for employing nuclear submarines to escort merchant ships and deter a pirate attack.

A still more disconcerting part of this emerging puzzle is an October 2016 headline
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in another Chinese naval-affiliated magazine, Shipborne Weaponry [舰载武器]: “Developments in Chinese Navy’s Land Attack Capabilities.” Not surprisingly, the article has a picture of the new Type 052 destroyer and discusses the developing Type 055 program with its enormous number of Vertical Launching System (VLS) tubes. It also prominently features a rare photo of the 093B nuclear submarine, which has a “relatively large protrusion behind the sail, thought by foreign observers to be a VLS compartment” [其指挥台围壳后面有一个比较大的突起, 被外界认为是导弹垂直发射装置]. Reaching out to a hypothetical land attack cruise missile range of 1,500 kilometers, such undersea forces afford “the Chinese Navy a non-aircraft carrier battle group attack capability that is extremely feasible, and also amounts to a huge breakthrough in combat capabilities . . .”


The developments related above should raise some eyebrows in Washington, New Delhi and elsewhere. In some ways, they are wholly expected and need not be greeted with excessive alarm. After all, plenty of naval analysts (both Chinese and Western) have long identified the vulnerability of Chinese maritime supply lines crossing the Indian Ocean. On the other hand, American naval strategists may be rather perturbed to contemplate how much closer Chinese submarines at Gwadar could be to reaching waters
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. After all, the only potential antisubmarine barriers between Pakistan and the U.S. East Coast are thousands of miles wide. southern Africa (and
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) may once again become hot real estate in an emergent Cold War. Is this one critical segment of Beijing’s long awaited strategic riposte to the American pivot?

At the very least, the Washington strategic studies community might want to shift some of their ample attention from scrutinizing satellite photos of reef outposts to examining the industrial activities around an exceedingly large shed on the Bohai Sea.

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is associate professor in
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at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, RI. The opinions expressed in this analysis are his own and do not represent the official assessments of the U.S. Navy or any other agency of the U.S. government.

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: Kilo-class diesel submarine. Wikimedia Commons/U.S. Department of Defense
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Then they might too build a few more, they don't yet have enough nuke boats to protect their SSBN'S or to escort their carrier, but since it can't do much more than a reported 28 kts I guess it doesn't matter that much.
Shang capable 26 kn, Han with a wind-broken reactor 25 but in practice seems 22 almost a SSK
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Do you expect PLAN to base nuclear powered submarines in Gwadar?
Basing? Probably not, because that might be too provocative to India, but regular visits? Yes.
Why would they visit Gwadar?
To supply food a SSN as Han or Shang must have an autonomy of 60 - 70 days - the max for giant Oscar, Typhoon 120, Akula 100 days, Ohio 90, all others nuclear 60 - 90 SSK more small 30 - 60 days - and relax sailors also it is not funny to remains 2 month in a canned :)

For SSN homeports even USA or Russia never have units permanently based overseas in foreign countries even SSK only 3 Barbels was based to Sasebo.
Possible during 1960's US SSBNs based to Rota but only for détails.
 
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