071 LPD thread

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Similiar they may be, but the San Antonio Class has more upper superstructure volume I think...thus of higher capacity.
The vehicle and storage area in the San Antonio Class is larger and it can carry more equipment and vehicles. But the well deck on the Type 071 is larger. It will hold up to four of their LCACs while the San Antonio will hold two.

Both hangers are of substantial size.

Self defense wise I believe the San Antonio is better ff.

It has

2 x 20mm Phalanx
2 x 21 missile RAM launchers
2 x 25mm autocannons

Whlile the Type 071 has

1 x 76mm main gun
4 x 30mm CIWS

I believe in terms of self defense against air borne threats, that the 2 RAM launchers would make a substantial difference. I have always wondered why the PLAN did not put a couple of FL-3000N launchers on those vessels.
 

weig2000

Captain
I believe in terms of self defense against air borne threats, that the 2 RAM launchers would make a substantial difference. I have always wondered why the PLAN did not put a couple of FL-3000N launchers on those vessels.

Pop3 said it might be due to budget constraint; apparently he was expecting the second batch beginning from 988 Yimeng Shan to have more self-defense weapons installed.
 

mangjitok

New Member
Registered Member
Budget constraints ? Strange reason

budget reason can be one of other reason why they did not put strong self defense, with small budget only get inadequate weaponry and too expensive to put strong enough weaponry, it is not necessary while this ship not intended to deploy when the airborne or naval threats still high, they will deploying this ship under saver combat situation,or if in critical situation can be deploying with escort from another combat ship or under naval air force cover.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
You cannot half build a navy even more you cannot half build a blue water navy

Budget reason to inadequately equip a capital ship ? Then don't build the ship in the first place

I highly doubt that is the reason, China has money for scores of naval programmes but not for outfitting a LPD? Again I don't take that

Plus LPD is relatively cheap to build in comparison to SSN, SSBN, DDG and CG

Not continuing to build further LPD and not equipping current LPD due to money is a little far fetched hell even Type 056 has FL-3000N

If it is money then China has much bigger problem ahead to deal with how do they plan to run a carrier strike group With fresh water and 1 million man swim ? Again very hard to believe

It is most likely a case for priority
 

mangjitok

New Member
Registered Member
You cannot half build a navy even more you cannot half build a blue water navy

Budget reason to inadequately equip a capital ship ? Then don't build the ship in the first place

I highly doubt that is the reason, China has money for scores of naval programmes but not for outfitting a LPD? Again I don't take that

Plus LPD is relatively cheap to build in comparison to SSN, SSBN, DDG and CG

Not continuing to build further LPD and not equipping current LPD due to money is a little far fetched hell even Type 056 has FL-3000N

If it is money then China has much bigger problem ahead to deal with how do they plan to run a carrier strike group With fresh water and 1 million man swim ? Again very hard to believe

It is most likely a case for priority

yes... its about priority like you say, and priority cause budget allocation:). not about half build or not, it's not necessary to put many weaponry on this ship class which will cause bigger budget. why should build this ship in bigger budget if they can get this ship in smaller budget. this class is intended as transport ship, can be assume as support ship, not a truly combat ships.(as a support ship should be not alone in the field). and usually they get in field while situation is condusive to put out landing ships for ground force far enought from offshore, if the front line secured enought by the other naval or airforce this ship can be deploy if necessary, so this ship truly more saver than another combat ships, no need to install much weaponry.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
...the front line secured enought by the other naval or airforce this ship can be deploy if necessary, so this ship truly more saver than another combat ships, no need to install much weaponry.
They have to plan for worst case scenarios.

These ships are very expensive and they carry many troops and a lot of expensive equipment.

So, it is critical that they have close in defenses in case an adversary somehow presses the attack and gets in close...despite the PLAN's best effot.

Four 30mm CIWS are not enough in such a scenario if missiles and bombs start flying toward ere.

Two FN-3000L launchers however will giver an extra layer of close in defense to take out sme or all of those missiles further away from the ship. This is again planning for the case where some aircraft or missiles get through...and you better believe they will be trying.

This is what Asif is trying to allude to. Amphibious assault, by its nature, is one nation being willing to use major assets to land troops on an adversary's shore, or on a shore that your adversary has taken from you and you want to get it back. Best to plan like they are gong to fight very hard to keep you from ding that.
 

weig2000

Captain
In one of his blog post dated 12-23-2014, pop3 talked about the history of Type 071 and some of its limitations; he also gave his ideas of an improved Type 071 or 071A. Among the improvements, he suggested new and better electronic systems and CC systems, as well as replacing the current CIWS 630 with 1120 and add HQ-10. The limitations with the current 071 ships are mainly due to it was designed earlier this century when there were urgency to deal with potential Taiwan crisis, PLAN's relative inexperience and some budgetary constraints at the time.

The following is the blog post in Chinese. The corresponding Google translation is posted separately due to size limitation.

中国海军071型综合登陆舰改型设想

中国海军于本世纪初期研制了H/JJL071型综合登陆舰,071型综合登陆舰是中国海军为应对台海局势的日益恶化、加紧对台军事斗争准备的诸多手段之一,也是中国海军装备正常发展的结果。071型综合登陆舰的研制,增强了中国海军的立体化综合登陆作战能力,解决了以前登陆作战手段模式单一的弊端。071型综合登陆舰的首制舰998号舰于2007年交付中国海军服役,此后,中国海军又陆续服役了999号舰和989号舰,最近有网络图片显示,目前第四艘071型综合登陆舰也在建造中。

071型综合登陆舰的诞生有其时代的背景,研制时正是台湾分离主义分子较为猖狂时期,为捍卫国家的领土完整和主权统一,中国海军扎实地进行了军事斗争的准备。但毋须讳言的是,071型综合登陆舰也正因为具有较为鲜明的时代特征,故此在设计上也有所欠缺。071型舰在设计时,中国的军事船舶工业也正处于一个转型时期,一些新技术和新装备尚未完成研制,同时,这一时期中国的军费开支也较为窘迫,这就导致了071型综合登陆舰在一些舰载设备的配置上较为简单。

071型综合登陆舰主要使命是遂行立体登陆作战,而其拓展的使命则更为宽泛,如用于低烈度护航、海外撤侨、抢险救灾、医疗救援乃至于物资运输等等。071型舰的作战系统为二级作战指挥模式,主要由警戒探测系统、76毫米舰炮系统、630舰炮系统、电子对抗系统、通信系统、导航系统、火力兼容管理系统、电磁兼容控制系统、登陆作战指挥系统和指控系统等组成。在设计建造之初,由于经费不足的原因,071型舰并未安装防空导弹系统,而在舰上预留了H/AJK-02型舰空导弹系统的安装空间和系统接口,以满足后续改装加装的需要。071型舰的作战系统虽然比072A大型登陆舰有较大的提升,能基本满足作战需求,但是以发展的眼光去审视,此舰在有些方面还存在欠缺和不足,其作战系统的配置更接近于诸如037II型导弹护卫艇。

071型综合登陆舰在登陆作战使用中与072大型登陆舰一样,会满载登陆人员及装备,故此通常以登陆编队形式进行航渡及作战,编队的防空及反潜等护航任务由编队内的防空驱逐舰和反潜护卫舰执行。与072大型登陆舰不同的是,在遂行登陆作战时,071型舰不需要也无法实施抢滩登陆,而是以立体登陆的方式进行,编队内的驱逐舰、护卫舰或火力支援舰承担预先火力准备和直接火力支援任务。故此,071型舰在武器配置上更侧重于自身的防空反导等自卫性质,071型已服役舰目前属于“简配”状态,缺装防空导弹系统。此舰所配置的76毫米舰炮系统对敌方飞机目标、舰艇目标具有抗击能力,对来袭的掠海反舰导弹有一定的全航路命中概率和累积毁伤概率;四座630舰炮武器系统可同时组织两个630舰炮通道,每个通道可组织两座630舰炮武器火力通道,用集火射击的方式抗击敌方飞机目标或来袭的掠海导弹目标;76毫米舰炮也可与630舰炮同时集火攻击同一目标,增大毁伤概率。

H/PJ-13型6管30毫米舰炮是中国研仿自俄罗斯的产品,其主要性能指标均不如国产730舰炮武器系统,如立靶密集度指标、全航路至少命中一发概率和全航路累积毁伤概率都低于730舰炮武器系统。笔者认为,在071型舰的后续改装中,将会取消630舰炮武器系统而采用比730舰炮武器性能更高的H/PJ-11型1130舰炮武器系统进行换装,毕竟,战时满载登陆人员的综合登陆舰属于高价值目标,提高自身防卫能力是必须的。同理,对缺装的防空导弹系统进行补装也是必要的,鉴于H/AJK-02型舰空导弹系统目前已被逐步淘汰,用HQ-10导弹进行替代也就顺理成章。

071型综合登陆舰在设计时采用了H/ZKT-1B型指控系统,其作战指挥模式为二级作战管理、节点综合控制和集中指挥的模式,而舰载的登陆作战指挥系统可指挥引导登陆器及直升机进行立体登陆。但是,笔者认为,在071型综合登陆舰当初设计时,中国在一些技术手段上能提供的保障和经验尚有所欠缺,当然,这是与当时的科技水平是直接相关的。在071型舰研制的稍晚期,中国海军进行了自上而下全面铺开的现代信息化工程,这一工程的推广使得中国海军的舰艇信息化水平得到了空前的、飞跃式的发展和提高并积累了大量的经验,一些具有国际先进水平的信息化设备也纷纷被研制出来并装备在中国海军舰艇上,如战略级、战术级和三军通用数据传输系统;远程目标指示系统和信息识别融合处理系统等等,在综合作战管控和指挥上也具有了长足的进步和全面的经验。此时,再回顾071型综合登陆舰的原设计,从指挥方式上、指挥能力上均显现不足,需要改进升级。以中国目前的军事船舶工业的水平,要解决这一问题毫无难度,研制具有两栖作战编队的综合立体化作战指挥能力的新型指挥系统也毫无悬念。

其实,从中国海军“辽宁”号航母的武器系统配置上也不难发现中国海军对于编队作战群的核心舰的一些思路,这就是强调体系作战能力和综合打击能力,强调分工负责和各司其职,而不是强调发展单舰的综合性全面作战能力。对071型综合登陆舰后续型号姑且称之为071A型,其相对于071型舰的的改进和升级,笔者的总体设想是,电子系统全面升级,使其具有优良的信息化能力和指挥控制能力,不仅承担本舰的作战指挥及登陆作战指挥,也具有编队作战指挥能力;在武器系统上全面升级,具有较强的自我防卫能力,用1130舰炮武器替换630舰炮武器、安装HQ-10防空导弹武器系统等;在电力系统、船舶系统、船舶装置等方面也会进行一些相应的升级,这些系统近年发展极快,自动化、模块化等现代化程度很高。071型综合登陆舰是中国两栖作战舰艇中的杰出之作,但071型舰并非中国海军两栖类作战舰的终点,在不久的将来,吨位更大、航程更远、作战手段更丰富、现代化程度更高的075型两栖攻击舰必将进入中国海军的行列,担负起捍卫国家主权和领土完整的重任。

To be continued...
 

weig2000

Captain
Continued...

Chinese Navy Type 071 landing ship modifications envisaged comprehensive

Chinese navy in the beginning of this century developed H / JJL071 integrated type landing craft, landing craft is a comprehensive 071 Chinese navy in response to the deteriorating situation in the Taiwan Strait, one of the many means of stepping up preparations for military struggle to Taiwan, but also the normal development of Chinese naval equipment the result of. Comprehensive Development 071 landing craft, and enhance the Chinese navy's landing three-dimensional integrated combat capability, to solve the previous landing operation mode means a single state. 071 integrated landing ship of the first ship delivered 998 ships in 2007, Chinese Navy, then, the Chinese navy has served successively numbered 999 ships and 989 ships, a recent image display network, currently the fourth 071-based integrated landing ship is also under construction.

Born 071 landing ship has a comprehensive background of its era, it is more rampant in Taiwan secessionist period when developed, to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of national reunification, the Chinese navy has been solidly prepared military struggle. But without denying that 071 integrated landing craft is also because it has more distinctive characteristics of the times, so the design is also lacking. 071 ship-designed, Chinese military shipbuilding industry is also in a transition period, some of the new technologies and the development of new equipment has not been completed, while China's military spending is also more distress during this period, which led to 071 integrated login on some ship shipboard configuration of the device is relatively simple.

071 comprehensive primary mission is to carry out amphibious landing operations perspective, and expand its mission is more broad, such as for low-intensity escort overseas evacuation, disaster relief, medical aid and even the transportation of materials and so on. 071 ship's combat system for the two operational command mode, mainly by warning detection system and 76 mm gun system, 630 naval gun systems, electronic warfare systems, communications systems, navigation systems, fire management systems compatible, electromagnetic compatibility control system, landing operations command system and command and control system and other components. At the beginning of design and construction, due to lack of funding, type of ship 071 air defense missile system is not installed, and the installation space reserved in the ship H / AJK-02 type of ship to air missile systems and system interfaces, to meet the subsequent conversion installation needs. 071 ship combat system, although there is a larger increase than 072A large landing ship, can basically meet the operational requirements, but the development of the vision to look at this ship there are still gaps and deficiencies in some respects, the configuration of its combat system closer in such 037II missile corvettes.

071 Comprehensive landing ship landing with 072 operations using the same large landing ship, landing personnel and equipment will be loaded, so usually in the form of sea-crossing and landing forces operations, fleet air defense and anti-submarine escort missions by the air defense destroyer fleet within and perform anti-submarine frigate. And 072 large landing ship, the difference is that when carry out landing operations, do not need to ship 071 type can not be implemented landing on a beach, but in the three-dimensional approach to landing, the destroyer fleet within frigate or ship fire support and fire preparation in advance commitment direct fire support missions. Therefore, in 071 type ship weapons configuration is more focused on the nature of their air and missile defense, etc., 071 type ship has been in service at present are "simple feature" state, the lack of installed anti-aircraft missile system. This ship configured 76 mm gun system target enemy aircraft, ships and targets to combat capability, incoming sea-skimming anti-ship missile has a certain probability of hitting the whole route and cumulative damage probability; four 630 Naval Gun Weapon System 630 guns while organizing two channels, each channel can be organized two channels 630 gun weapon fire, set fire with fire way to fight enemy aircraft or targets incoming sea-skimming missile target; also available with 76 mm guns 630 guns set fire to attack the same target at the same time, increasing the probability of damage.

H / PJ-13 type 6 30 mm gun is a Chinese research imitation products from Russia, its main performance indicators are better than 730 domestic gun weapon systems, such as vertical target density indicators, out of the whole route at least hit probability and the whole route cumulative damage probability is lower than 730 Naval gun Weapon system. I believe that in the subsequent modification of the ship 071, 630 will be canceled gun weapon system and the use of more than 730 weapon performance Artillery H / PJ-11 type 1130 gun weapon system and changing, after all, in wartime comprehensive landing landing ship loaded with personnel belonging to high-value targets, to improve their defense capabilities is a must. Similarly, the lack of means of air defense missile systems retrofitted with is also necessary in view of H / AJK-02 type of ship to air missile system has been phased out, with the HQ-10 missiles were also logical alternative.

071 Comprehensive landing craft used in the design of the H / ZKT-1B type command and control system, its operational command mode for the two battle management, integrated control and centralized command node model, and carrier landing operations command system can command guidance landing stereo unit and helicopter landing. However, I believe, in 071 integrated landing ship original design, security and experience China in a number of techniques can provide still lacking, of course, this is the time of the level of technology is directly related. In the 071-ship developed a little later, the Chinese navy conducted a top-down full swing of modern information technology projects, promotion of this project is such that the level of information the Chinese navy warship has been unprecedented, leap-style development and improvement and accumulated a wealth of experience, a number of information technology equipment with advanced international level have also been developed and equipped in the Chinese naval vessels, such as strategic level, tactical level and the armed forces general data transmission systems; remote target designation systems and information recognition fusion processing systems, etc., on the integrated combat command and control have also made considerable progress and overall experience. At this point, look back 071 integrated landing ship of the original design, from the command mode, the command capabilities are insufficient to show the need to improve the upgrade. In China's current level of military shipbuilding industry, to solve this problem without difficulty, the development of new amphibious fleet command system has a three-dimensional integrated combat command capability is also no suspense.

In fact, from the Chinese naval weapon system configuration, "Liaoning" aircraft carrier is also not difficult to find some ideas for the Chinese navy fleet battle group's core ship, which is to emphasize the comprehensive combat capability and combat capability, emphasizing the division of labor and its divisions level, rather than emphasizing the development of a single integrated ship full operational capability. Type 071 landing ship of the integrated follow-up model tentatively called 071A type, with respect to 071 ship improvements and upgrades, the overall vision of the author is that the electronic system is fully upgraded, it has excellent information capabilities and command and control capabilities not only assume operational command of the ship and landing operational command, operational command also has a fleet capacity; comprehensive upgrade in weapons systems, with a strong self-defense capability, replace 630 with 1130 gun weapon gun weapon mounted HQ-10 air defense missile weapon systems; in power systems, marine systems, ships and other means will be some corresponding upgrade these systems very fast development in recent years, automation, modularization degree of modernization. 071 China-based integrated landing ship amphibious ships is an outstanding make, but not the Chinese navy ship 071 amphibians as the end of warships in the near future, the tonnage greater, farther, more abundant means of warfare, the degree of modernization the amphibious assault ship 075 more will enter the ranks of the Chinese Navy, shoulder to safeguard national sovereignty and territorial integrity of the task.
 
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