054/A FFG Thread II

[maozedong]

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051C power system is mature.
some source said 052B and 052C use different Ukraine's gas turbines. I think China wanted to test the different power system.
I just read the magazine article that say 052B already had intruduced the power system technologies into localization.

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[plawolf]

054A I presume. Because up till now, I don't think we are seeing any 054B yet.

Oppst, yeah, I meant 054A. That'll teach me to write posts at 1 in the morning.

 

[plawolf]

Generally I agree with your rationale, however the statement about 2 carrier groups' worth might be a tad overly optimistic. Neither 052C nor 054A runs above 30 knots, for start I wouldn't imagine the carrier in development running below that;

China's first carriers are likely to be conventional powered, so running at those speeds is probably not going to be a good idea over protracted periods.

In fact, I think its a bit of a stretch even for nuclear carriers to do 30+ over long distances, as during the Haiti earthquake, I distinctly remember reports making a special mention about the US carrier doing the whole leg at max steam, which is a clear indication that such speeds are not operational norms.

then the air defence & asw might be somehow lacking with the shortage of vls & in helos. I actually believe 054A & 052B/C were "made for each other", the honor of joining carrier groups *will fall onto their respective successors in the years to come.

Ops, did you mention 051C? Are they supposed to be merely experimental? Or am I just prejudiced against steam turbines*

Yes, I did mean 051C, and they are not merely experimental ships. Their design might be experimental, but the ships themselves are operational, so there is no reason why they can't be used operationally.

The 054A and 051/052Cs are made for each other, and they make perfect partners in comprising an escort for a carrier.

They are by no means perfect and the PLAn will always want something better, but that takes time. In the meantime, the 054A is a more successful design then the 051/052Cs, so the PLAN is going for more of them while they wait for a DDG design that better satisfy their needs.

Or, it could be as you suggested and they are waiting for a suitable power plant for DDGs while they have something satisfactory for FFGs already.

 

[EDIATH]

Pardon me but you misunderstood my comment on 052/054's speed. The maximum speed is as much a measurement on the ship's propulsional capacity as a tactic issue. The CODAD on 054A would offer no less cruising speed than a CODAG system does e.g. Class Horizon. Yet when the occasion arises demanding high speed (not so rare in a sea battle I assure you, especially with carrier groups that apparent wind speed is a major concern for planes taking-off & landing), CODAG powered ships can easily gain 30 knots or above with their gas turbines while full-diesel powered ships would struggle pretty hard at around 27 knots. So the bottom line is 054A needs to beef up on propulsion (USN Oliver Perry Class alike?) for a potentially successful career in a carrier group. Blue water navy?? Let's ditch CODAD & get toys like Nansen or Type 45 first, shall we?:roll: *

Btw I was kidding about 051C, the ships are no doubt perfectly functional, though I reckon they are the last pair of DDGs using steam turbines...hopefully * * * * *

 

[tphuang]

this entire part amuses me a little bit. You can think of navy just about which ships they have and which weapons they jammed on it. You have to think about the sailors and the operating procedure and such. 054A provides PLAN with a very modern platform that they can build their fleet around. By having so many 054As produced and operating in south china sea and in those extended deployments in Gulf of Aden, PLAN is learning how to operate a modern fleet. They are getting the experience needed to operate together and using new and modern weapon/combat systems.

 

[ZTZ99]

I would say only a couple of gas turbines could make all those things happen, to be more specific, two QC185s with nearly 18MW power each would be idea for a 5000-ton size frigate (& four for Destroyers on par with USN Arleigh Burke).

The original LM2500's built for the AB's were already 20MW. The latest LM2500+ are around 23MW. So unless the PLAN can make the QC185 deliver something along these lines, they will have to settle for either a future destroyer that is either a slower or a smaller ship compared to the AB.

 

[EDIATH]

The original LM2500's built for the AB's were already 20MW. The latest LM2500+ are around 23MW. So unless the PLAN can make the QC185 deliver something along these lines, they will have to settle for either a future destroyer that is either a slower or a smaller ship compared to the AB.

Unfortunately you are right, i bet they would settle on smaller instead of slower under the "system warfare" doctrine. On the other hand, the LM2500 used on Oliver Perry Class has only got 16MW power, shouldn't it be the step before AB's upgrated 20MW (if that offers some consolation to Shenyang Liming)?

And I quite agree with what tphuang pointed out. 054A is a milestone for PLAN's progress towards the blue water ambition. We didn't see that many actions from PLAN ships (mainly engaged in diplomatic/ceremonial missions) before the anti-pirates compaigne, they would never have learned about what a modern navy does, especially thousands of miles away from the base, with ships decades behind contemporary tech. standard. 054A is not perfect yet has got it all, for PLAN sailers the upgrade to 054A is like getting the first car after graduation, a huge step towards the realisation of mercedes dream

 

[ZTZ99]

Unfortunately you are right, i bet they would settle on smaller instead of slower under the "system warfare" doctrine. On the other hand, the LM2500 used on Oliver Perry Class has only got 16MW power, shouldn't it be the step before AB's upgrated 20MW (if that offers some consolation to Shenyang Liming)?

And I quite agree with what tphuang pointed out. 054A is a milestone for PLAN's progress towards the blue water ambition. We didn't see that many actions from PLAN ships (mainly engaged in diplomatic/ceremonial missions) before the anti-pirates compaigne, they would never have learned about what a modern navy does, especially thousands of miles away from the base, with ships decades behind contemporary tech. standard. 054A is not perfect yet has got it all, for PLAN sailers the upgrade to 054A is like getting the first car after graduation, a huge step towards the realisation of mercedes dream

No doubt the 054A is a giant step up for the PLAN. Much more capable than Luda destroyers overall. It's just too bad the HQ-16 or whatever is in those VLS tubes supposedly is almost as large as an SM-2 but has less than a third of the range. That's the 054A's major drawback IMO.

 

[Totoro]

Does the hq16, like the shtil missiles, rides on a narrow radar beam, like the sm-1 missiles? That would explain the range difference. I would also suggest a newer guidance method would solve the range issue without changing the size/shape/motor of the missile.

 

[yehe]

Does the hq16, like the shtil missiles, rides on a narrow radar beam, like the sm-1 missiles? That would explain the range difference. I would also suggest a newer guidance method would solve the range issue without changing the size/shape/motor of the missile.

I dont see that targeting radar, anyone see it?

Anyway, what ship does the French using to escort thier carrier?
La Fayette? The La Fayette have same CODAD engine as the 054A, less powerful even.