PLAN Type 051B/C Class Destroyers

J

joshuatree

Captain
adeptitus said:
The Chinese military has made improved variants of the HQ-7 system and missiles, so logically I'd think that the HQ-7 on Chinese Navy ships may also receive such upgrades during refit. The French, for example, has updated the system with VT-1 and Mk.3 variants.

The HQ-10 has some obvious improvements, such as ability to mount up to 24 rounds on the launcher. But as far as the missile itself is concerned, how does it match up to improved HQ-7 variants in intercepting missile threats?
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While the missile itself may not have any significant advantage, isn't the HQ-10 missile smaller? So if a 24 round unit was installed, wouldn't that reduce top weight because the HQ-7 launcher is removed along with its reload mechanism? Also, I always thought missiles have a shelf life so eventually, you still need to build new ones to replace expired ones. With HQ-10s becoming standardized, isn't there an economy of scale in that specific missile production?
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
joshuatree said:
While the missile itself may not have any significant advantage, isn't the HQ-10 missile smaller? So if a 24 round unit was installed, wouldn't that reduce top weight because the HQ-7 launcher is removed along with its reload mechanism? Also, I always thought missiles have a shelf life so eventually, you still need to build new ones to replace expired ones. With HQ-10s becoming standardized, isn't there an economy of scale in that specific missile production?
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If that translated into a serious diet, the ship's centre of gravity could be affected.
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
MwRYum said:
If that translated into a serious diet, the ship's centre of gravity could be affected.
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If that is the case, the freed up room from not having a HQ-7 reload mechanism can be used for other things that could replace the weight. More storage? Sensor equipment?
 
A

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
If I'm not mistaken, the original HQ-7, HQ-10, and RIM-116 are all Mach 2+ missiles, versus the improved Crotale VT-1 missile is Mach 3.5 with longer effective range. The Crotale can also be quad-packed in VLS cells.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
joshuatree said:
If that is the case, the freed up room from not having a HQ-7 reload mechanism can be used for other things that could replace the weight. More storage? Sensor equipment?
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Well, I know real warships ain't Lego...ok, serious...now, it's not known at which point the PLAN made modular designs standard in terms of weapon modules, and should 051B/C had made no provisions for future upgrades in their designs, the structure could've been tailored to the HQ-7 unit plus its reloading magazine. Now, we do know that the HQ-10 system only occupy a very small footprint below decks - 2 decks the most by what's seen when mounted on the test ship. What to do with those now-vacant space would be a challenge...in fact, when it got stripped and installed with new (and probably more advanced, more compact) suites of systems to better utilize the interior without affect the handling characteristics would be an interesting prospect.

Especially so because the PLAN only mastered those ocean-going hulls designs on the 052B/C, if I'm not mistaken.
 
FORBIN

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Normaly to homeport Qindao-Jiaonan/Guzhenkou Bay 50 km of Qingdao exist also bases to Qingdao-Xiaowan and Qingdao. In more Shakizou/Jiangezhuang to 20 km !

And close to Ningbo it's even more complicated... !
PLAN do not know the reductions in the number of bases...
 
J

joshuatree

Captain
kwaigonegin said:
dzufew.jpg


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That's a pretty major reconstruction of the entire superstructure. My guess would be yes. Most likely a cold launch system they have in the 052D or perhaps an improved type VLS they intend on putting on the 055. who knows!
Anyway I don't think they would do all those changes just for the heck of it. LOL

Installing new sensors, radar etc wouldn't require such drastic change but a new weapon system would for sure. That's a very good capability upgrade for sure if it is indeed the case here but then again the 051B has always been kinda a one off 'experimental' ship for the PLAN so it's obvious choice I guess she would be picked for any serious upgrade.

So if it goes from 8 HQ7s 'ready to fire' to 32 HQ9s/YJ ## VLS that would be an exponential improvement in terms of lethality for this lil puppy.

Also shouldn't this go under 051? instead of 052 thread?
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I hope it's going to be one of their standardized VLS systems. I thought the 052D VLS was a mix of cold and hot? Also hope that add a TAS and/or VDS to give it more capability. As you say, this is extensive work so the expectation is that she will serve for many more years.
 
MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
joshuatree said:
I hope it's going to be one of their standardized VLS systems. I thought the 052D VLS was a mix of cold and hot? Also hope that add a TAS and/or VDS to give it more capability. As you say, this is extensive work so the expectation is that she will serve for many more years.
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If they going to install anything other than the old HQ7 system, the new SAM would most likely be the HQ-16 either in the same VLS modules as in the 054A FFG, or the CCL system installed on 052D DDG - that's because the superstructure has not much room to pack in those phased array radar panels, not without a total rebuild of the entire superstructure that is.
 
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