PLAN Torpedos

Discussion in 'Navy' started by TorpHistorian, Jul 1, 2011.

  1. TorpHistorian
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    TorpHistorian New Member

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    Re: China's Yu-6 torpedo was reverse-engineered from U.S. Mark 48 heavyweight torpedo

    As I have understood from the Russian open sources, under the 211TT1 contract components of the torpedo have been delivered. But not a complete torpedo. Therefore 3 years are very short.

    If development was Russian-Chinese, Yu-6 torpedo itself is Chinese torpedo undoubtedly. Because final design, manufacture and tests were, obviously, only Chinese.

    About Wiki description. The modern torpedo is very much complex machine. Hundreds enterprises, thousands scientists and engineers participate in its creation . Therefore mention of several scientists in Chinese open sources does not speak anything.
     
  2. Martian
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    Martian Senior Member

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    Jane's alludes to Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo as reverse-engineered from U.S. Mark 48

    Jane's alludes to Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo as reverse-engineered from U.S. Mark 48 torpedo. No mention of Russia. Also, Yu-6 torpedo is 533 mm in diameter, which is exactly the same as U.S. Mark 48 torpedo. Other remarkable similarities between Yu-6 and Mark 48: both use Otto fuel and "wire guided and passive/active acoustic homing." (See Wikipedia article on Yu-6 and Federation of American Scientists article on Mark 48 at http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/mk-48.htm)

    Defence Security Report

    "Knockout blow: torpedoes primed to deliver a heavyweight punch
    By Richard Scott
    8/12/2008
    ...
    Image: The Chinese Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo, reported to have entered service with the People's Liberation Army Navy in 2005, is reputed to have its origins in a US Mk 48 weapon recovered from the sea and then reverse-engineered. (Via Chinese Internet) 501 of 4,428 words"

    [​IMG]
    China's Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo with 533 mm diameter

    [​IMG]
    U.S. Mark 48 heavyweight torpedo with 533 mm diameter

    Even the paint scheme of the Mark 48 has been cloned on the Yu-6: front torpedo neck painted red and followed by two circular yellow stripes. I think the Chinese were paying homage to the Mark 48.
     
    #12 Martian, Jul 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  3. TorpHistorian
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    TorpHistorian New Member

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    Re: Jane's alludes to Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo as reverse-engineered from U.S. Mark 4

    In Russian-Chinese military technical cooperation it is possible to trust only sources from Russia and China. The everything else including Jane's and R.Scott is conjectures like “ Via Chinese Internet ”.

    I have given the data from dependable Russian sources. If interestingly for you, I can give names of Russian books (on cyrillics).
    Look for information in Chinese language, for example "211TT1". It is interesting what has filtered in an open Chinese sources.

    The Russian torpedoes being Yu-6 analogues (without circular yellow stripes;)) are

    TT-1 MULTIPURPOSE THERMAL-POWERED WIRE-GUIDED HOMING TORPEDO
    Russian Military Forces | Aviation | Navy | Infantry firearms | Communications | Ground systems | Weapon photogallery

    UGST VERSATILE DEEP-WATER HOMING TORPEDO
    Russian Military Forces | Aviation | Navy | Infantry firearms | Communications | Ground systems | Weapon photogallery
     
  4. T-U-P
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    T-U-P The Punisher
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    Discuss ALL PLAN torpedo related matter here
     
  5. delft
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    delft Brigadier

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    Re: Jane's alludes to Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo as reverse-engineered from U.S. Mark 4

    Nearly all heavy torpedoes over the last hundred years had a diameter of 533 mm. Besides I thought we didn't consider Jane's to be reliable.
     
  6. bd popeye
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    bd popeye The Last Jedi
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    Since when? Just because you disagree with them does not make them unreliable. Even if they do have some inaccurate information. Nothing is perfect. They've been around since 1898.

    As for the torpedo. I at one time instructed the loading of torpedoes on helos. The yellow bands on a USN torpedo stand for live high explosive ordnance. In fact any US or NATO ordnance yellow bands mean live rounds.

    That pic of the USN loading the Mk 48 is from the '70's..
     
  7. franco-russe
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    franco-russe Senior Member

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    Jane's Fighting Ships has been around since 1897, to be precise. But for the first 80 years of its existence, they concentrated on just Fighting Ships, without feeling any need to cover every conceivable subject on earth.
     
  8. TorpHistorian
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    TorpHistorian New Member

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    Re: Jane's alludes to Yu-6 heavyweight torpedo as reverse-engineered from U.S. Mark 4

    Except for havyweight torpedoes which had diameter of 450, 483, 500, 550, 600, 610, 622, 650 mm;)
     
  9. Martian
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    Martian Senior Member

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    Four citations on the Yu-6 torpedo demonstrating its likely Mark 48 origin

    I will provide my fourth citation.

    1. My first citation was a detailed Wikipedia article on the ten-year development history and 18 innovative patents from the specific Chinese scientists and dates involved in reverse-engineering the Mark 48 torpedo.

    2. My second citation was from the Federation of American Scientists to show that both the Yu-6 and Mark 48 heavyweight torpedoes use Otto fuel.

    3. My third citation was from the authoritative Jane's.

    4. My fourth citation is from SinoDefence article to show that the only thing Russian about the Yu-6 torpedo may be the wake-homing technology.

    Yu-6 Torpedo - SinoDefence.com

    "Yu-6 Torpedo
    Last updated: 26 October 2007

    The Yu-6 is the 533mm wire-/acoustic-/wake-homing heavy torpedo designed by 705 Institute (also known as Xi’an Precision Machinery Institute), a R&D branch of the China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) in Xi’an, Shaanxi province. The Yu-6 is the most advanced and capable indigenous torpedo in service with the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN), designed to engage both deep-diving submarines and surface ships. The torpedo entered the PLAN service in 2005, carried by the Type 039 (Song class) and Type 039A (Yuan class) conventional submarines, and possibly the newly launched Type 093 (Shang class) and Type 094 (Jin class) nuclear-powered submarines too.

    In the mid-1980s, the PLAN decided to develop a new heavy torpedo for both anti-ship warfare (ASuW) and anti-submarine warfare (ASW) roles, by reverse-engineering a single Mk-48 torpedo recovered by Chinese fishermen in the late 1970s or early 1980s. The development project was later put on a halt after few prototypes were produced due to enormous technical difficulties and lack of funding. However, research on the Otto fuel II and wire guidance was continued by a small team.

    As the PLAN realised that its current torpedoes were unable to meet its requirements for modern naval warfare, the Yu-6 project was officially revived in 1995, with Dong Chun-Peng appointed as the chief designer. The revised Yu-6 design has possibly incorporated some Russian technologies, particularly the unique wake-homing technology. A number of Chinese organisations were involved in the Yu-6 development, including Shanghai Jiaotong University that developed new alloy for the torpedo casing; Tianjin Rubber Research Institute that supplied the noise-reduction casing for the acoustic seeker; Harbin Electro Carbon Research Institute tasked to develop the graphite material used to make engine valves and other components; Yizheng Shuanghuan Piston Ring Co. Ltd. that developed the piston ring for the torpedo propulsion.

    It was reported that the Yu-6 adopts a combined wire + active/passive acoustic + waking-homing guidance for different types of targets. Its guidance system reportedly uses an Intel 80486-class microprocessor. The Yu-6 was also the first Chinese torpedo designed with the concepts of modular design and open architecture software programming in mind, so that new technologies and programmes could be readily incorporated whenever they become available."
     
    #19 Martian, Jul 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
  10. Red___Sword
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    Red___Sword Junior Member

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    Interesting readings.

    Anyone thought is there any connection between US's and Russian 533mm Heavyweight torpedo? Like one "inspired" by another to be developed at first place? Their birth date is cold war era right?

    For example, Tu-160 and B-1, who inspired who? - It might be useful if one day China developed a similar bomber and people starts to "trace the lineage".


    PS: I didn't get the exact difference between sinodefence web, and sinodefence forum (other than sinodefence web updates much slower). Is that sinodefence web is some kind of "think tank", and it post only "testified" info on the webpage, for people to refer - while SDF provideing the "intelligence pool"???
     
    #20 Red___Sword, Jul 4, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2011
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