PLAN surface combatants 2020

Discussion in 'Navy' started by kwaigonegin, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Tetrach
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    Tetrach New Member
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    I was saying "yes" for the initial post about the fleet structure. Sorry if by being so imprecise I wasted your time !
     
  2. Max Demian
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    Max Demian Junior Member
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    While the generated noise could be be mitigated with anti-vibration mounts and other noise damping measures, perhaps that's only practical at small power outputs. Type 23s have only a combined 6MW (less in practice) to distribute to electric drive, which obviously helps further in noise mitigation. The Hybrid drive for the Burke's (comparable power output) would've given them a top speed of about 12 knots.

    The other major noise source are the propellers, especially at medium to high speed when they approach or enter into cavitation regime. Speaking of which, does anyone have propeller shots of Type 054A or Type 52 C/D ?
     
    #32 Max Demian, May 16, 2019
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  3. Totoro
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    Totoro Captain
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    So, with that recent news of 4 051 destroyers being retired, (Henri K twitter post), PLAN is down to last two 051 destroyers in active service, no?
    At this pace of putting new ships into service, it's plausible even those last two ships will be retired sometime in 2020.
    Could we make any sort of prediction for the 053 frigates, though? I haven't been following their retirement rate closely and the wiki page may be out of date (as it is with 051s currently) Certainly the Jianghu V variants might last another half a decade or so, perhaps to be replaced by a new type frigate.

    What's the status of 037 boats, though? With all the 056 corvettes coming online, one would expect that most, if not all of those subchasers, patrol boats and missile boats will soon get retired. No?
     
  4. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    I like to leave out older ships, since they represent hold overs or legacy doctrines of previous administrations, and do not reflect current or modern doctrine. For example the Russians still have Sovs, Udalois, Slavas and Kirovs. The Soviet Navy has its Cruiser-Destroyer-Frigate-Corvette or Missile Ship arrangement. But its modern doctrine is better represented with the Admiral XXX frigates and the modern Prj. 2038X corvettes. The corvettes are unusual because they can be split into two, a larger heavy or battle corvette like the Project 20380 and its follow ons, followed by a smaller stealth corvette. The larger corvette types, like the Stereguschy and Gremyaschy, displace and armed in a way that might better regard them as smaller frigates, and these ships have traversed all the way to the Indian Sea, traveled both the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, these are not characteristic of corvette only craft but true frigates.

    The RN is two tier with Type 42 destroyer and Type 23 frigate. I don't want to mix different time periods as overlaps between tiers create an impression of three and more tiers. Type 42 is replaced by Type 45, but Type 23 persists. Given that there is no follow on to the Type 45, by the next decade it becomes more of carry over to the next administration that is led by the Type 26 at the high end, and the Type 31 at the low end, keeping the two tier structure. The Type 26, despite being a frigate, is only two meters shorter than a Type 45 and appears to weigh less by only less than 1000 tons. While its numerous AAMs do not match the AAMs of the Type 45 in range, the Type 26 has a depth of long range OTH offensive warfare capability the Type 45 doesn't have. Frigates keep growing in size, making older destroyers more like modern frigates in size, and in a number of cases, the frigates are bigger than the older destroyers within the same navy. Note that the Russians are now planning to build Project 22350M, which are improved and larger versions of the Admiral Gorshkov class frigate (one commissioned, one in trials, four under construction), which would reach and exceed 7000 tons and carry 48 VLS. This makes these frigates weigh as much and better armed than older destroyers. Going back to the RN, the next AAW top end warship of the RN to replace the Type 45 is likely going to be based off the Type 26, with this version configured more like the Australian or Canadian versions of the Type 26.


    The matter gets more complicated that in Europe, from London to Moscow, there seems to be a subtle trend with the phase out of the term 'destroyer' and just calling every new surface warship, a frigate. This gives the illusion these 'frigates' all belong to the same weight class, but we are seeing a split up among the frigates, the first, being a heavy, battle or front line frigate, followed by an intermediate or medium frigate, a good example of this is the French FREMM vs. FTI, Type 26 vs. 31, or FREMM vs. PPA. That all reflects a two tier arrangement, with Tier 1 and Tier 2 Frigate tier replacing the Destroyer-Frigate tier.

    PLAN is traditionally two tier, but we also seeing significant overlap of tiers from the Jiang Zhemin and Hu Jin Tao era, or at least contracted from those eras, to give an impression there is more. Call it the "era compression." The JZH era best represented by the collection of Sovs, Type 052, 052B, 051B and 051C for destoryers, and the Jiangweis for the frigates. The HJT era is best expressed with the Luyangs I and II as the top end and the Jiangkais as the second tier. The momentum of the HJT era signed contracts extend all the way to the Xi Jing Ping era, while the first real new ship of the XJP era is the Type 055, and the top end for the XJP era. Does the XJP naval policy have their own two tier, that is not merely an extension of the HJT era contracts (052X and 054X). So there is going to be the question what is the second new surface warfare vessel of the XJP era and the anticipation of this being a second tier ship.
     
  5. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    I think there are still four 051 boats. Would be great to release the names Kaifeng, Zhuhai, Zhanjiang and Dalian for the new destroyers. I remember there is a neat picture of them all four tied up together berthed in the same pier in one group with modern warships in the background. I think that picture is telling about their true status.

    I have not seen boats older than the 053H3 in exercises.

    They might be in 'service'. Not sure about the 'active' part. I remember looking at Google Earth to see rows of small missile boats tied up and berthed together in rows. Its not hard to tell a 037 from an 022. I get the impression that the boats are only active in paper, but I won't be surprised that their crews, which is becoming the most valued resource in the PLAN, has been assigned to somewhere else.
     
  6. Lethe
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    Lethe Senior Member

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    New York Times, citing "Chinese Defense Minstry", notes involvement of "patrol boat" Taizhou (053H1 533)in 2015 confrontation with USS Lassen.

    And here's a photo of 533 Shaoguan with 174 Hefei. Not sure when it was taken, but Hefei was only commissioned in 2015...

    [​IMG]
     
  7. A.Man
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    A.Man Major

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    FYI:

    200519rrqzzpp9p5e1u0p5.png
     
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