PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread

[FarkTypeSoldier]

ALERT: This program is in Chinese!

Hello all,

Military Analyst Program introduces the modification of PLAN 136, 137, 138 and 139 Sovs.

First cutscene introduces some fans captured no.136 at an undisclosed yard doing modifications. The first cutscene also introduces the history of the Sovs which we all know. They are all induced into ESF at the start of 2000 to form a formidable surface combatants added to the old 051 series and 053 series figates of ESF. The Sunburn missiles are also briefly mentioned.

Since the late 2000s, as the 052Cs ddgs and 054 frigates were being induced, the PLAN Sovs are reaching midlife. 136 is having the main dual 130mm gun turret as well as the AA missiles dismantled. The bridge and mast of the current Sovs are lacking stealth hence there should be major modifications over there.

The Sovs would have ample “room” for improvements; program says a fitting of 052D should not be an issue. It would make a traditional Sov into a “Chinese Aegis Sov”.

This episode’s guest is Prof Zhang Zhao Zhong (Prof ZZZ). He is invited to speak about the Sovs.

Prof ZZZ replies that the Soviet navy once sold PLAN the first batch of its destroyers which main weapons were guns. The Sovs are the more powerful ddgs that the Russian navy sold to PLAN. The tonnage of each Sov is still the largest among PLAN surface combatants. He also shared the characteristics of the Sunburn missiles.

Second cutscene describes the route the last two Sovs (956EM) took. The Chinese flag was raised onboard the Sovs with Chinese sailors at St- Petersburg naval harbor in 2006 and left the port taking its journey to China. It took almost two months to travel in 2006.

Prof ZZZ shares why the PLAN decided to purchase because the some Sovs were ½ built after the collapsed of USSR and partly due to the cross-straits relations during the 90s. The need for PLAN to have stronger surface combatants; hence the Russian Sovs were decided. It could enhance the PLAN’s strike capabilities.

PLAN’s decision to purchase these Sovs are partly due to the then advance Anti-ship missiles and the naval’s ship-building capabilities were limited. These requisitions would later prove to be a learning “platform” in advance weaponry, ship building for the navy sailors and the Sovs are not too outdated till now.

Third cutscene brings us back to the days when the Sovs came to China, navies like USN (three fleets), Indian Navy, JMSDF and ROCN all attempted to collect acoustics signals and photography of the Sovs during each journeys.

Prof ZZZ, after the third cutscene, shares the type of acoustics signals and the effects affecting the same ship after years of usage. Therefore a data have to be collected for rival navies.

Fourth cutscene bring us to Oct 2008, where PLAN 138 ‘Taizhou’ and Type 054 525 ‘Ma’anshan’ with two more other ships, crossed the Tsugaru Strait to Vladivostok for Sino-Russian Joint Navy Exercise. This exercise, as reported by USN is dubbed as a response to US arms sales to Taiwan and Georgian conflict.P3C and several aircraft were used to spy on the then task force.

Continues below...

 

[FarkTypeSoldier]

A CGI of no.136 in manoeuvre

Prof ZZZ shares the nature of Japanese straits and its characteristics. He states that it is natural that Japanese forces will come to surveillance the ships.

Fifth cutscene goes to Toyko where Tokyo once invited PLAN Sov to come to visit Japanese ports after the 7th Sino-Japanese Defense Forum in 2007. The forum concludes that each country would send its warship for friendly visits and the host actively wanted the PLAN Sov or PLAN no. 171 to come.

The main reason to invite a Sov is because it is the only type of naval ship with long range strike capability that is specifically designed to strike a carrier at around 150km. In additional, PLAN had received all 4 Sovs which belongs to ESF, which in turn takes charge of the region around Chunxiao gas field; hence it is a good target for surveillance.

Thirdly, no.137 patrolled the Chunxiao gas field in 2005, as flagship for the PLAN patrol task force in 2005. When a P3C discovered the task force, the search radar of no.137 detected the P3C as well, both parties were engaged a tight situation. Since then, the JMSDF views the Sovs as a potent striker among ESF.

After the cutscene, Prof ZZZ comments on the invitation during the forum that whenever ships the PLAN wanted for friendly visits is the decision of PLAN, not by any nations requesting to see what kind of ship. There is absolutely no reason for PLAN to send its then newest warship for Japan to secretly survey it while on friendly visit.

He also added that each tonnage of Sov (8300 tons) is the largest ever since the Beiyang Fleet of 7300 tons warships of “Ding Yuan” class of 1888. In those days, the warship “Ding Yuan” went to Nagasaki for visits, and on-board visits were open for Japanese citizens. This is a norm practice for all friendly visits.

Prof ZZZ also shares his experience as a Communications Officer onboard a Chinese destroyer, when an entourage of Amercian navy officers came (probably in the 1980s), on board visits were opened freely. Visits on-board and the degree of opening is dependence on the friendliness between countries to countries. Back to the invitation of the forum, he comments that PLAN may be skeptical on the citizens that came on-board to visit; hence another ship was sent instead.

Sixth cutscene brings us to the topic of Type 052C/D vs PLAN’s Sov, what role would the Sovs be? The short firm brings us to Sino-Russian Joint Naval Exercise 2014. Some background on the number of combatants from both sides is introduced which includes, more than 14 warships, 2 subs, 9 jetfighters and some ship-borne heli as well as marines.

The Chinese navy sends its combatants mainly from ESF which comprises of PLAN no. 112 “Harbin”, no. 139 “Ningbo”, no. 538 “YanTai”, no. 573 “Liuzhou” and Axillary ship “Qiandaohu” as well as 2 Subs. Combatants from Russian Navy are being introduced next.

While the attention for the exercise was focused on Slava class missile cruiser “Varyag” and Type 052C “Zhengzhou”, “Ningbo” and “Bystryy(hull no. 715)” were almost forgotten. During the exercise, “Varyag”, ”Bystryy” and ”Ningbo” were grouped together to exercise on saturated attack on tactics to strike a carrier or large ships.

Continues below...

 

[FarkTypeSoldier]

A fanart on a "Chinese Aegis Sov"

When asked on his views on how the 4 PLAN Sovs be like, before rumoured Type 155 ddg being induced, he answers that Sovs main role is Anti-ship with anti-aircraft capabilities. While others newer ddgs may have multi-function, Sovs primary role is to strike enemy’s large warship. With the current or future upgrading, it would be based on PLAN’s future strategic needs which include the future PLAN carrier, after the review, only then its role would be clear.

Prof ZZZ’s personal view is that, some systems on a Type 052 could be refitted on a Sov, due to its size. The “改娤冗余度” (Too technical, I can only term this as “the degree of potential upgrading ”) he mentions, on every warship, designers should let the ship have the capability of a 20% to 30% upgrading space. However, due to a Sov’s large size, the degree of potential upgrade is beyond 30%.

He uses a 30sq meters room vs a 200sq meters house as a metaphor next. There are more room for upgrading and more newer furniture than a small room; hence size and space are PLAN’s Sovs main advantage in terms of upgrading them.

Prof ZZZ in his own opinion reckons that even undergoing upgrading, its primary role should remain as anti-ship platform. Its missile advantage should not be downgraded as it is the Sovs primary role. In terms of anti-aircraft, he reckons that it should have a major overhaul of its AA system due to the current VLS China have. When the AA system is upgraded, it can enhance its own current AA system to ensure self-sufficient AA capabilities while still having the anti-ship role. With a better AA system, it could be an escort for a future Chinese carrier.

The seventh cutscene leads us to the upgrading of some destroyers in the likes of Type 052B no. 168 “Guangzhou” which a photo which shows the main armament being mismantled, and there are two openings on the portside hull of no. 168.

Another ddg, Type 051B no. 167 “Shenzhen” in another photo is being undergoing a major overhaul. All onboard weapons are being torn down, for really major changes.

Type 052 ddgs, 112 “Harbin” and 113 “Qingdao” are also currently under upgrading.

Many speculated the installation of Chinese built VLS systems (Fore & aft launcher of 64 AA missiles) to enhance a Sov’s anti-ship, anti-aircraft and anti-sub capability. Other systems such as CIWS and APAR radar are an option.

Prof ZZZ sums up that whatever the technology PLAN has in its inventory (weapon, radar, propulsion) currently, are options for upgrading. He ended by stating his main worry is still the hull design which is not a stealthy designed.

Host concludes the episode by stating the upgrading works should be done objectively to suit PLAN's strategic needs.

 

[Blitzo]

Interesting stuff, the historical bits are most interesting...

But he is speculating regarding how the Sovs could be refitted as much as the rest of us.

 

[FarkTypeSoldier]

Interesting stuff, the historical bits are most interesting...

But he is speculating regarding how the Sovs could be refitted as much as the rest of us.

LOL... He may know some of the things we do not know but cannot reveal much afterall.

 

[MwRYum]

If to introduce a more "stealth" designed superstructure, the existing one would need to be totally replaced, because just adding "stealth" platings onto existing hull would inevitably leave hollowed regions between the "old" and "new" structures, spaces that'd be wasted due to the confines of such a design, if you disregard the fact of dead weight to the overall tonnage as well.

What the professor said was interesting, that the Sovremenny is and always will be anti-ship first, a competent anti-air capability is secondary; the Moskit missiles will stay as well...other than that nothing more substensive oh this topic got throw around. In any case, if VLS is to be introduced into the refit, there will be more extensive work on the superstructure as well as the hull,

 

[duskylim]

Unless we include the Varyag-Liaoning. The PLAN has not really upgraded any major combatant by radically changing its structure and vastly improving its sensors and/or weapons system. Looking back, a few of the Luda class were given launchers for HQ-7, equipped with the YJ-82/83?, had Type 76A twin 37mm automatic cannon, and associated detection, fire control and other electronic systems installed. These seemed to be the most drastic upgrades yet undertaken by the PLAN.

Indeed we have yet to see a major surface combatant originally equipped with the HQ-7 receive a more advanced and capable air-defence system. So far the main weapons upgrades have been replacing the twin 37 mm or AK-630 systems with the Type 730 CIWS. on some of the older vessels with life still in them. Maybe we can include the modification of some of the 056 corvettes (light frigates?) with more advanced ASW systems as a major upgrades, signalling a new PLAN empasis on ASW - and about time some may say.

Hopefully if this turns out to be a true major upgrade, the PLAN will be able to put new wine in these old bottles and transform these older vessels into highly capable combatants. If the decision has been made to do so, perhaps it is due to the need to reduce the cost of maintaining vessels with differing components and bringing about more standardization and interoperability amongst the PLAN's surface fleet. I for one still feel that it might not be worthwhile to spend large amounts of money on these old hulls with their old design and propulsion systems given the Chinese shipyards capacity and capability to build new ships.

Of course I could be wrong. Time and mods will tell.

 

[PanAsian]

Judging by the Prof ZZZ program I'm guessing the Kashtans and the SA-N-12/17's will be replaced by Type 730's, FL-3000's, and the universal VLS. There is definitely a lot of room to play with aft of the stack.

 

[Ashbringer_NEU]

Judging by the Prof ZZZ program I'm guessing the Kashtans and the SA-N-12/17's will be replaced by Type 730's, FL-3000's, and the universal VLS. There is definitely a lot of room to play with aft of the stack.

Hi, PanAsian, I think Kashtans may be replaced by Type 1130's which has been set on PLA's new warships like Liaoning and new 054A?
Besides, I am wondering that do you have any idea about what missiles will be used to replace SS-N-22? Could it be YJ-12 or YJ-18?
Many Chinese military fans talk a joke. they said that PLA will use 59 Tank to replace SS-N-22, LOL......

 

[PanAsian]

Hi, PanAsian, I think Kashtans may be replaced by Type 1130's which has been set on PLA's new warships like Liaoning and new 054A?
Besides, I am wondering that do you have any idea about what missiles will be used to replace SS-N-22? Could it be YJ-12 or YJ-18?
Many Chinese military fans talk a joke. they said that PLA will use 59 Tank to replace SS-N-22, LOL......

Oh yeah I forgot about the Type 1130, probably that instead of the Type 730.

I am not sure if the SS-N-22 will be replaced.

That the Type 59 is still in PLA service is just sad but it serves as a good reality check on how far they have come and how far they have yet to go.