PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

not, exactly, related, but juxtaposing this set of circumstances with the arguments and positions taken in the SCS debate/competition sure sheds light on the double standards that abound from every quarter.
Chinese Fleets Illegally Fish in West African Waters, Greenpeace Says

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What is there to juxtapose? What double standard? Illegal fishing has been committed by foreigners in many places. None, AFAIK, has ever been done on the orders of foreign govts. Most recently, 41 boats caught for illegal fishing were sunk by Indonesia, including one from China. Just one, but the following media somehow chose to highlight China's boat.

jkliz said:

So do you think the US military acted unprofessionally by allowing this footage to be released?

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Frankly Scarlet, it's a good move for US to embed "journalists" and release the videos for public consumption. Nothing truly new is revealed, but it gives Americans and their allies domestic fodder to propagandize and manipulate as needed (China does the same thing too). We'll likely see more US/China/Vietnam/Philippines/Japan pics and videos from planes, ships, satellites, and maybe even a periscope view or two. The fact US 7th Fleet is fairly quiet and we don't see Obama sending a CAG or two in the SCS suggest military solution isn't on the table.

It seems like the US Navy has directly release more footage straight onto Youtube - pretty amazing stuff.

Blackstone said:

The South China Sea is China’s Greater Caribbean, and by controlling it, China connects the Western Pacific to the Indian Ocean and establishes de facto control of East and SE Asia.
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Most definitely a gross exaggerration.

I am going to re-post SampanViking's posted article from one of the other SCS threads as it describes much more accurately what the effects of China's presence in the SCS are, which definitely are not somehow being able to magically control or cut off S, E, and SE Asia, nor cut off other countries' SLOC's, nor fully protect China's SLOC's because there are plenty of surrounding navigable waters and China's SLOC's extend far beyond the SCS. All it does is strengthen China's presence in the SCS by a lot but not enough to matter outside of the SCS.

SampanViking said:

The inimitable Peter Lee makes his welcome return to ATOL and writes on the subject of the SCS.
Most of his premise is well established from previous writings, but he applies and shows consistency in relation to current circumstances.

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PanAsian said:

Most definitely a gross exaggerration.

I am going to re-post SampanViking's posted article from one of the other SCS threads as it describes much more accurately what the effects of China's presence in the SCS are, which definitely are not somehow being able to magically control or cut off S, E, and SE Asia, nor cut off other countries' SLOC's, nor fully protect China's SLOC's because there are plenty of surrounding navigable waters and China's SLOC's extend far beyond the SCS. All it does is strengthen China's presence in the SCS by a lot but not enough to matter outside of the SCS.

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You could lead the horse to the water, but you can't for it to drink. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Wow, the crew aboard the P-8As get to observe the construction of the islands 24/7. I wonder if they ever get bored and launch into intense political debate about South China Sea politics...

t2contra said:

(...)None, AFAIK, has ever been done on the orders of foreign govts.(..)

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From the article: (...) Among the worst offenders, Greenpeace said, is the state-owned National Fisheries Corporation (...).

Illegal fishing in another country's EEZ, that is, violating another country's EEZ, i could be mistaken, but i was fairly certain that the subject of EEZ's and respecting country's EEZ's, was germane to this discussion. Aren't EEZ's really what the whole SCS debate/competition all about.
The surficial orientation here is quite frustrating.

janjak desalin said:

From the article: (...) Among the worst offenders, Greenpeace said, is the state-owned

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National Fisheries Corporation (...).

Illegal fishing in another country's EEZ, that is, violating another country's EEZ, i could be mistaken, but i was fairly certain that the subject of EEZ's and respecting country's EEZ's, was germane to this discussion. Aren't EEZ's really what the whole SCS debate/competition all about.
The surficial orientation here is quite frustrating.

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SCS disputes are about sovereignty of land features, and not EEZ. China is right to steer debates away from the EEZ, because it would lose on that straw man. The real argument is who owns the SCS islands, rocks, and submerged features, and China isn't foolish enough to let others frame the issue.

janjak desalin said:

From the article: (...) Among the worst offenders, Greenpeace said, is the state-owned

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National Fisheries Corporation (...).

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That does not infer that the govt is allowing it to happen with a conniving eye. The personnel running various govt organizations of other countries are known to flout rules and regulations for their own personal gain. Corruption happens everywhere.