PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

ahojunk

Senior Member
More pictures, all dated April 11, 2016 of Bremen Bank and Langhua (Bombay).

Binmei.Tan.滨湄滩.Bremen.Bank.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg Bremen Bank - in true color.

Binmei.Tan.滨湄滩.Bremen.Bank.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Bremen Bank - in infrared.

Binmei.Tan.滨湄滩.Bremen.Bank.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Bremen Bank - in shortwave infrared. There is basically nothing.

Langhua.浪花礁.Bombay.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg
Langhua (Bombay) - in true color.

Langhua.浪花礁.Bombay.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Langhua (Bombay) - in infrared.

Langhua.浪花礁.Bombay.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Langhua (Bombay) - in shortwave infrared.
 

ahojunk

Senior Member
More pictures dated April 11, 2016. This time of Crescent Group of Islands and Huaguang (Discovery) Reef.

Yongle.Qundao(永乐环礁)Crescent.Group.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg
Crescent Group of Islands - in true color.

Yongle.Qundao(永乐环礁)Crescent.Group.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Crescent Group of Islands - in infrared.

Yongle.Qundao(永乐环礁)Crescent.Group.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Crescent Group of Islands - in shortwave infrared.

Huaguang.华光礁.Discovery.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg
Huaguang (Discovery) Reef - in true color.

Huaguang.华光礁.Discovery.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Huaguang (Discovery) Reef - in infrared.

Huaguang.华光礁.Discovery.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Huaguang (Discovery) Reef - in shortwave infrared.
 

ahojunk

Senior Member
More pictures all dated 11 April, 2016. They are of Yuzhuo (Vuladdore) Reef and Panshi Yu (Passu Keah). These features are in the Paracel Island group.

Yuzhuo.Jiao.玉琢礁.Vuladdore.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg
Yuzhuo (Vuladdore) Reef - in true color.

Yuzhuo.Jiao.玉琢礁.Vuladdore.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Yuzhuo (Vuladdore) Reef - in infrared.

Yuzhuo.Jiao.玉琢礁.Vuladdore.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Yuzhuo (Vuladdore) Reef - in shortwave infrared.

Panshi.Yu.盘石屿.Passu.Keah.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg
Panshi Yu (Passu Keah) - in true color.

Panshi.Yu.盘石屿.Passu.Keah.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Panshi Yu (Passu Keah) - in infrared.

Panshi.Yu.盘石屿.Passu.Keah.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Panshi Yu (Passu Keah) - in shortwave infrared.
 

ahojunk

Senior Member
The following pictures are of North Reef and Triton Island. They are all dated 11 April, 2016.

North Reef is the most northwesterly feature of the Paracel Islands. Most parts of the reef are submerged. There are rugged rocks are around the edge that are barely above water. There is a passage into the lagoon on the southwestern side of the reef.

Triton (Zhongjian) Island is the south western most island of the Paracels. It is inhabited by fishermen and their families.

Beijiao.北礁.North.Reef.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg North Reef - in true color.

Beijiao.北礁.North.Reef.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
North Reef - in infrared.

Beijiao.北礁.North.Reef.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
North Reef - in shortwave infrared.

Zhongjian.中建岛.Triton.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(1).truecolor.jpg
Triton Island - in true color.

Zhongjian.中建岛.Triton.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(2).infrared.jpg
Triton Island - in infrared.

Zhongjian.中建岛.Triton.2016-04-11_L8-satview.(3).shortwave-infrared.jpg
Triton Island - in shortwave infrared.
 
Someone I knew has recently been working on a project in the SCS and returned with some interesting stories which could add some historical perspective that is still relevant today to the disputes.

These are all second hand stories, so take them with as much salt as you see fit.

Firstly, if anyone has ever wondered why the Chinese station so many marines on their SCS outposts, especially when they were just tiny specs before the recent island building, that was because the Chinese marines had learnt some bitter lessons when they only stationed small detachments originally.

Until very recently, communications with China's SCS outposts was difficult and sporadic, never mind China's ability to effectively monitor what is going own down there.

There have been instances when Chinese supply ships arrived to find the entire garrison of an outpost murdered.

The PLA is convinced that it was the Vietnamese who did it, but lacks enough evidence to make a convincing case against them. Meaning they couldn't make a massive fuss diplomatically or publicly about it, so they only recourse was to remember and make sure they never allow themselves to be so exposed again. Hence the unusually large garrisons.

Another more recent issue has been sabotage.

Vietnamese divers often use civilian fishing boats as cover to get in position and then cut Chinese underwater cables.

A lot of the more publicised clashes between Chinese coast guard ships and Vietnamese fishing boats happened near Chinese underwater capable routes.

Because of the the past sabotage, the Chinese tend to take a hard line on Vietnamese fishing boats loitering near those cable routes an try to chase them off whenever they are spotted in those areas.

The more reluctant the Vietnamese fishing boats are in leaving the area, the more convinced the Chinese become that they are Vietnamese covert ops teams trying to cut cables, and the more hardline the Chinese tend to get in response.

The very violent clashes between Chinese coast guard and Vietnamese 'fishing boats' around the Chinese old rig recently was a perfect example where the Vietnamese sent in covert forces in the guise of civilian fishermen trying to sabotage Chinese equipment, and the Chinese Coast guard was having none of it.

As the Chinese deploy more and more assets into the SCS, much of it unmanned, expect these clashes to spread and intensify as the Vietnamese try to sabotage Chinese equipment and the Chinese coast guard tries to stop them.

If these stories are true then the PLA needs to do two things.

Firstly recognize and address their own limitations and ineptitude in handling them, because that is really what it is for even a small garrison to be wiped out in a remote location without timely knowledge by their command. Equipment, training, through protocol, tactical and strategic setup all need review and improvement.

Second, they need to own up to it as a lesson in humility and once again ultimately, ineptitude, make it a learning opportunity and reminder for posterity.

If these stories are not true then they are very inflammatory rumors.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
If these stories are true then the PLA needs to do two things.

Firstly recognize and address their own limitations and ineptitude in handling them, because that is really what it is for even a small garrison to be wiped out in a remote location without timely knowledge by their command. Equipment, training, through protocol, tactical and strategic setup all need review and improvement.

Second, they need to own up to it as a lesson in humility and once again ultimately, ineptitude, make it a learning opportunity and reminder for posterity.

If these stories are not true then they are very inflammatory rumors.

The incident ostensibly happened in 1990. The biggest problem China had with garrisoning those islands was communication, which was unreliable with the technology China had at the time. According to the article I linked, a ship was sent to investigate after contact was lost with the outpost.

A small garrison without support will always be vulnerable, not matter the training or protocol. This is probably why most of those disputed islands are ungarrisoned.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
There have been instances when Chinese supply ships arrived to find the entire garrison of an outpost murdered.
Absent any corroborating evidence I don't think a reasonable person can accept this. That sounds like something out of a B movie--the boat pulls up and finds a pile of dead bodies. And the government never said a word? What did they tell the families? When a bomb blows up and there's no claim of responsibility, governments don't cover it up because they don't have proof of the perpetrators. If the Chinese government found a group of their citizens murdered on one of their outposts you can bet they would raise hell about it because it's a perfect chance to appear as the victim for once.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Absent any corroborating evidence I don't think a reasonable person can accept this. That sounds like something out of a B movie--the boat pulls up and finds a pile of dead bodies. And the government never said a word? What did they tell the families? When a bomb blows up and there's no claim of responsibility, governments don't cover it up because they don't have proof of the perpetrators. If the Chinese government found a group of their citizens murdered on one of their outposts you can bet they would raise hell about it because it's a perfect chance to appear as the victim for once.

I think you underestimate the amount of violence happening in that region of the world, especially in the time when the incident is said to have occurred. Note that only two year prior, China and Vietnam had a naval battle that resulted in large Vietnamese casualties. And a couple of years before that, the two countries were engaged in border "skirmishes" that involved massive artillery strikes and division-sized attacks.

Also note that this was around the time China and Vietnam was negotiating the normalization of relations. This incident could very well have been downplayed in order not to derail the negotiations.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
If the incident was back in 1988-1990, I agree the Vietnamese were very capable of doing this, and that it would be in the interests of China to keep quiet about this.

After all, China was still occupying part of Vietnamese territory near the Chinese-Vietnamese border - since the 1979 war. And yes, there were deadly naval and land confrontations between China and Vietnam back in those days.

This was all part of the lethal chess game where we had the Vietnamese/Soviets lined up against China/US.
 
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