PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

joshuatree

Captain
Do you guys think China will expand (reclamation) the area of Woody Island ... lets say by 2025? I know the focus now is in Spratly, but honestly I don't see China wouldn't do that. It seems Woody island area could be doubled relatively easily


Well, they are still working on the area they've reclaimed between Woody and Rock Island that is bordered by the runway on one side. By the time that is complete, that's already a significant increase in size and will accommodate quite a bit. Not sure what level of return there will be with even more reclamation. The larger the population, the bigger the challenge on infrastructure needs as well. The remaining reefs still serve a vital wave breaking function and would be very useful during storms.

My guess would be more development on the other features in the Paracels instead to strengthen and secure them, such as maybe an enlarged outpost on Triton since that feature is the farthest off and would be prone to challenges.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Oh, I am sure they will base military assets in the SCS. IMHO, very little question of it.

The key will simply be what they do with them.

If they help control pirating and the international sea lanes, but otherwise maintain a relatively low profile, I do not think there would be anything about that to get too excited about.

The US is busy strengthening its military ties and help for Europe in Spain, Romania, Poland and elsewhere. In the region, the US has its own base in Guam and maintains other bases at the invite of the Japanese and the Koreans. It is once again increasing its presence in the Philippines. There is parity and balance in all of that...and it does not need to be, or necessarily portend, being confrontative.

In the end the key will be how Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Indonesia interact directly with the Chinese presence...and at a greater distance, how nations like Australia and India view it.

So, I do not think there is any doubt that there will be elements of the Chinese military there...and I do not think that anyone is going to try and stop them, other than protest statements perhaps.

But as time goes by and there is no confrontation, and particularly if China shows itself to not be seeking to grab more space in the SCS, or infringe on the economic activates of others there...and particularly if those forces, while keeping a low profile, assist in controlling and eradicating piracy in the area...then over time I expect it will simply come to be recognized as the new normal.

The US will continue to conduct FON exercises (albeit over time, less frequently)...and other nations may join in that. But as long as the heat stays down and it goes on with nothing untorward occurring...I expect things will proceed with that new normal.

At least I hope it will go that way.

...and quite frankly, short of someone doing something foolish and intentionally aggravating it, I think that is how it will go.
The problem with your narrative is it relies on US-led military containment of China, and that simply wouldn't work, because it's unstable over time. Already we see Australia backing away from B-1 basing, because it doesn't believe increasing strategic tension with Beijing is in its best interest. Getting anyone other than Japan on board for US military supremacy is already fraying at the seams, and will be increasingly difficult as China continues to close the gap in maritime Asia.

FON may go on for a bit, but Beijing has served notice to Washington it no longer accepts US primacy as basis of Asian security order, so unless US sufficiently accommodates China's security interests in Asia, we'll see increasing strategic tension between the two. And if push comes to shove, it would be unwise to expect anyone other than Japan to stand with Washington in East Asia. Frankly, I don't even see Tokyo supporting SCS operations in any meaningful way.
 

delft

Brigadier
Oh, I am sure they will base military assets in the SCS. IMHO, very little question of it.

The key will simply be what they do with them.

If they help control pirating and the international sea lanes, but otherwise maintain a relatively low profile, I do not think there would be anything about that to get too excited about.

The US is busy strengthening its military ties and help for Europe in Spain, Romania, Poland and elsewhere. In the region, the US has its own base in Guam and maintains other bases at the invite of the Japanese and the Koreans. It is once again increasing its presence in the Philippines. There is parity and balance in all of that...and it does not need to be, or necessarily portend, being confrontative.

In the end the key will be how Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Indonesia interact directly with the Chinese presence...and at a greater distance, how nations like Australia and India view it.

So, I do not think there is any doubt that there will be elements of the Chinese military there...and I do not think that anyone is going to try and stop them, other than protest statements perhaps.

But as time goes by and there is no confrontation, and particularly if China shows itself to not be seeking to grab more space in the SCS, or infringe on the economic activates of others there...and particularly if those forces, while keeping a low profile, assist in controlling and eradicating piracy in the area...then over time I expect it will simply come to be recognized as the new normal.

The US will continue to conduct FON exercises (albeit over time, less frequently)...and other nations may join in that. But as long as the heat stays down and it goes on with nothing untorward occurring...I expect things will proceed with that new normal.

At least I hope it will go that way.

...and quite frankly, short of someone doing something foolish and intentionally aggravating it, I think that is how it will go.
But that is just what China would have been doing without those US activities beginning with Hillary Clinton's talk of 2010. What else would China be doing?
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Mainland China isn't the only one enlarging islands in the South China Sea.

rKDHgRI.jpg
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
But as time goes by and there is no confrontation, and particularly if China shows itself to not be seeking to grab more space in the SCS, or infringe on the economic activates of others there...and particularly if those forces, while keeping a low profile, assist in controlling and eradicating piracy in the area...then over time I expect it will simply come to be recognized as the new normal.

What makes you think the likes of Vietnam and the Philippines would not seek to escalate the situation as a means of sucking America into the dispute to fight their battles for them?

You also talk as if it was America's place to decide what is acceptable and allowable, and that it is down to American good graces to allow China's presence in the SCS, China's own backyard.

I think more than anything, it is this superior and presumptuous attitude that China resents the most.

America is not the world's judge, jury and executioner. It is not America's responsibly or place to police the world and tell others how to behave.

America has national interests it wants to and needs to protect and look after, but the SCS isn't remotely close to being one of those interests, and China has not done anything to jeopardise any American interests with its island building.

China building islands in the SCS does absolutely nothing to damage American national interests, and FON has never even been a real issue. Its just an excuse and pretext for the USN to get involved.

Even if America was genuinely worried about the impact of those islands on FON, the Lassen has already shown that China will not seek to stop ships sailing that close to its islands even if it doesn't like it. Point made, FON is a non-issue. The logical thing would have been to just leave that precedent as established and move on. Further FON missions would only be needed if China actually tried to limit the movements of ships near its islands.

The continued FON thus seems more like intimidation rather than something based on a genuine concern. Its like someone who lives on the other side of town prowling around along your fence with a loaded shotgun starring at you.

He is perfectly within his rights to do that, but don't think for a second that's the right thing to do. Such displays isn't more likely to get someone to "behave", its more likely to get your "mark" to ready his own shotgun.

If lowering tensions was the real goal, continued FON missions seems like the last thing the US would want to be doing.

The US will continue to conduct FON exercises (albeit over time, less frequently)...and other nations may join in that. But as long as the heat stays down and it goes on with nothing untorward occurring...I expect things will proceed with that new normal.

At least I hope it will go that way.

...and quite frankly, short of someone doing something foolish and intentionally aggravating it, I think that is how it will go.

So what do you think will happen if and when the likes of Vietnam and the Philippines co-ops America's FON missions and decide to use that to contest Chinese ownership and control of islands?

What if they send ships within 12nm or islands that would have qualified for their own territorial seas before construction? What if they break the 4nm parameter?

What if China decide to start tit-for-tat FON missions of its own against all islands and features occupied by others?

By needlessly entangling itself in the dispute, and launch the FON missions, the US has, wittingly or not, open a dangerous door that could very easily lead to significant increase in tensions in an already high tense and charge region and subject.
 
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